Why You (and Gibson) Should Be Paying Attention to Heritage Guitars

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): Good day to ladies and gentlemen out there in the world of tone. We welcome you to another podcast with the chairman of the board boards. Thank you for being here as always. And our topic of conversation today is around. replica guitars and whether they are worth it or what is the point with which they may be worth it.

Now let me just clarify what we mean when we say replica guitars. So to personalize this I recently acquired a Heritage guitar. Now if you're familiar with the Heritage company you know that they are making guitars that are akin to A Gibson style instrument whether that be a 335 in Gibson terms or a 535 in heritage terms a less Paul.

In Gibson in the Gibson world and in H 150 in the Heritage world there are these correlations. And of course I think one key differentiator about Heritage comparatively to others that that might be making a similar style instrument is that Heritage is made in the original Kalamazoo factory with which all the classic Gibsons were made.

Which may not necessarily be true of any other companies that are doing this with exception to I would say G&L. Um which was Leo Fender's sort of evolution of the Fender guitars. Um and that's still around and they still make kind of Tele and Strat style instruments as well as other things that were part of kind of Leo's sort of evolution of the guitar.

But I think the question that we all have or many of us have is can we get a better instrument firstly from some of these brands that don't say Gibson or Fender? Um and Is the incremental cost difference between getting the name brand one versus sort of the replica version? Is it worth it? Is the resale there is the is holding the value you know maintaining the value of the instrument the equity in the instrument does it hold that same equity?

These are all questions as buyers of instruments that we all should consider and would want to consider. But I first want to just kind of just take the temperature of the room here. Um or I should say our our individual rooms since we're all siloed and kind of get a sense from you about you know kind of what your thoughts are about these sort of brands.

So I'm thinking you know G& L Heritage I think are kind of the two big ones that come to mind. There are of course many others which which you may all be familiar with but to just kind of want to see where you are in terms of what you're sort of What your feelings are on these brands what you think about kind of your perspective as a as a buyer whether this is something that you get concerned about how much of a concern is is resale to you?

Um do you do you have any experience with these instruments as far as quality things of that nature? Brian or Grant I'll turn it over to you. Come on Brian.

Brian Omilion (Omilion Audio): Okay. That's fine. Yeah no I mean I don't I don't have an issue with like these other brands that are doing it. Before the podcast I asked about like how some companies can like Do models that look so alike other models and stuff so like I I definitely have come across guitars where i'm like oh sweet like I've I have been on the hunt for a red 335 Gibson for a while something that I just i've i've wanted to acquire and I found a couple And but it's been like a different brand And i'm not saying that it's a bad thing or anything.

I think it's it's it's Eastman is that one that does? Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So there's a guy here I think in the dfw area that has one and like i've looked at that a few times I don't think it deters me from doing that because it looks the same but it's a different brand I just think i'm so familiar with the with like a gibson brand or something.

I've never had the G what's it g and l g

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): g and l g and l.

Brian Omilion (Omilion Audio): Yeah. I've heard a lot about them I've seen i've seen stuff like that but I you know i've I have fender strat And jazz master fender bass duesenberg gretch guitar. Like I don't have These other not it's not an off brand But it's just a different brand.

I don't I you know I I don't collect that many guitars I have my shop guitars. I have my personal guitars So yeah I don't have a lot of experience. I would say there's a part of me that just kind of goes through those name brands because i'm familiar with it And it's one of those things I guess you could say in like a grocery shopping term It's like like well this is the brand I always buy food.

So I know the brand I know the quality So i'm gonna stick with it Um I guess the same thing could be said about off brand stuff is you know You don't always know until you I guess try it. So that's that is my rambling take

Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): I'll take that ramble and I'll add something to it. I I would agree. I think there's safety in buying a familiar household brand.

Um but I don't know if I would say it's always the right choice depending on why you want to buy the instrument. That's kind of where my my temperature sits early on in the podcast. Like if you think about someone like Sir who makes Strat style guitars and they are manufactured beautifully. Arguably better than Fender can pull off.

It's a smaller outfit they can probably pay more attention to detail on a per instrument basis. I could be completely wrong. Mason you're more experienced here so disagree with me if I'm way off. But you pick up a Sr instrument As an example on the you know high quality side. And it's instantly you know that this instrument was put together very well.

Not to say Fender isn't because I love Fender guitars. Um but then you go to the other side the other side of the fence and there are a million and one Fender style copies. It's an easy instrument to manufacture for the most part in comparison to other other styles of guitars like Gibson. Um there are kind of like pedal board builders.

If we want to go there anyone can build a parts caster. and learn how to do that. They can buy a neck over here. They can get a body that might even already have a loaded pick guard. They can bolt them together tune it up a little bit and sell it. And I think they're I think it's easy to find Fender copy guitars.

That are maybe less than inspiring. Um but I think if you are going for resale I would assume and I'm no expert here but there's safety in the name brand that we are all familiar with. And maybe more so than just an instrument that plays really well sounds awesome but no one recognizes the name.

I I just don't think you're gonna get the resale that maybe instrument that Doesn't play as well doesn't sound quite as good but has that name behind it. I think you'll just you know if resale is your is your goal I don't think you you'd want to go with an off brand or or a copy if that kind of makes sense.

I don't know. We'll we'll get there more later on in the podcast maybe but that's my initial take. It's a little chilly up here in Canada. So So I think my My um comments there kind of reflect that I'm I'm catching my breath here a little bit. So I'll throw it back to a southern southern state in California to you Mason.

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): I don't know if anybody's ever referred to California as southern. When you're up in Vancouver Canada it's southern. It's a couple states southern.

Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): The deep south. The deep south of North America.

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): So I I think that for the most part I agree with you when it when it comes to replicas of a certain like a certain I guess I'm trying to think what the word is.

Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): We got to find a word here not a copy. Well I'm thinking I'm

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): thinking of of of sort of like a certain level of recognition you know or or or prestige I guess is the right word. Yeah. Because I think SIR holds its value well. Yeah. Because it's recognized fairly universally as being.

Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): It's not a small brand at least at a

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): custom shop level amongst a standard guitar.

Yep. Um and I think that Tom Anderson probably falls into that too. They both hold their value very well relative to other things.

Brian Omilion (Omilion Audio): Absolutely.

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): I don't know about Heritage because I've never searched for them on the used market but I was just looking to kind of give us a baseline of of kind of what we might be looking at.

And so I I I'm looking at kind of the the website here for what would be considered the equivalent of a custom shop um from heritage. So these are what they call their artisan aged which is kind of like their Murphy lab. And you can see here that you know if we were arranging let's just arrange by price um So we can kind of see the the range is is about 4 600 let's say 4 700.

Let's just round up um you know down to around 2 500 but these are pretty like gorgeous guitars. and are these are used

Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): you're saying?

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): No these are brand new. Okay. These are brand new and you can kind of see the the aging the the relicing here in the in the finish. You know this is like again a pretty.

Um you know sophisticated relicing job and I can I can tell you from the one that I have that they do a really really gorgeous job in terms of the aging of of the instrument. So this is kind of the range that we're looking at for for a heritage you know so kind of the high end of it is about 4 700 you know not not not nothing but But it's not 10 grand.

But then this is the Gibson equivalent here and if we do the same we arrange from from price you know you're the high end here is around 10 000 and then kind of on the low end for a gold top is about 5 500. So you know it's it's quite a significant Double. Jump. Almost double for the high end. Um so so I think that this is definitely a consideration.

I mean you're getting an amazing guitar of course from Heritage. It does not say Gibson but I think irrespective of that like for new guitars like this you're never going to make money for the most part when you walk out of a store with it. There's always going to be some depreciation just like a car.

And I think that the I guess the difference is is that the the barrier for entry on a Gibson is just so much higher. Um you know and taking a 30 percent loss let's say on a 10 000 guitar that's you know you walk out the door it's another guitar seven right. Um and and you know if you walk out the door with 4 500 you know or 4 700 you know you're you're looking at you know somewhere what around 1 700 less than what you came in and something like that.

Yeah. So you're you're looking more like $3000. Um You know I don't know. So here's mine mine is is is is is not only a you know an artist in age but it's it's like a custom version in that you can see here that it that I I don't I don't wanna get too far away from my mic but it's got a P 90 neck That's awesome.

And a Humbucker bridge and it is in a Cadillac Green. Finish which you know is to me is is is way cool. It's got the Bigsby um which is also I think a unique feature and you can kind of see if I if I put it in the right light you can kind of see the aging and the finish. And I'll do my best to describe it here to people that are that are watching.

So they kind of know. I don't know what's going on but man they just they did an amazing job. Oh I like that. Awesome.

Brian Omilion (Omilion Audio): Holy moly. You

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): can kind of see the age back. We'll be doing a full in depth video on this. Um but I would just say that the the quality of the fret work um the sound and everything on this is stock you know so the the the P nineties sound great the humbucker sounds great.

It's kind of a PAF style thing. Um It's it's a lovely guitar. And I would say you know my my Les Paul I recently took to Joe Riggio to basically treat it as a conversion and a re fin so that is kind of not representative of what Gibson would do. But if I were comparing this instrument to my R8 It's just like guitar for guitar before I did anything to it this is a better instrument out of the box.

It's it's it's unquestionably a better instrument. It plays nicer straight straight from the factory. It sounds amazing. Um you know again the fret work all that stuff there's really nothing to complain. I think if there was one thing I had to complain about I wish that the nut were cut a little like the slots were cut a little deeper but that's kind of a nit-picky thing.

And I think that that's a typical thing that you would see from brands because they know you can always cut them deeper if you want that. Um and they kind of I think are airing on the side of like okay we're going to you know kind of people are going to make this how they want it in terms of you know then I mean certainly like playable I would just say it was a little high.

For my taste but that was an easy fix. You know you just you know you have your Stuart McDonald you know little files and you and you just make the slots a little deeper and you're good. Um and I think that that was the only thing the setup was fine. Um and I think it's it's a really fantastic instrument.

If I were just saying I want the best instrument I can buy for that kind of money that's in a Les Paul style. I don't think you're going to go wrong with the heritage. And again the you know they they look like a Gibson from you know the headstock down the headstock doesn't look like a Gibson. Um the pick guard I guess is a little bit different than a Gibson.

And I think on the back the the covers the bottom cover is definitely a Gibson but the top one for the for the switch is a little different you know it's it's more of an of an oval. And less of a of a circle but um I'm I'm I'm supremely impressed with the with the quality and and I would I would suspect that this one if I were to have bought it on the on the site you know this one I got directly through heritage cause it was kind of a custom thing.

if I were to have bought this on the site I think it would be more than that $4600 you know range or so. But I would say you know again I I don't. I I would I would be hard pressed to find a Gibson for that money that would play that way. I would suspect that have to be getting in the six to eight thousand plus range to get an equivalent guitar.

And it's just hard to get a good guitar when you've got that much wood. Like I find that Gibsons are way harder to find a good one. Like Fenders I feel like You know if if you're at a certain level if you're at a custom shop level maybe like one in three one in five are pretty excellent. I think with Gibson's you know to find the one that I had my R8 I went through 20 or more R7s R8s R9s and R0s to find one that I thought was really special.

Um and there was a lot of mediocre guitars in there that at the time this is in maybe 2014 or so 2015. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. That I got it there there were a lot of guitars that weren't great guitars and they were really expensive you know and and so I think it's just hard when you're dealing with You know big honking pieces of mahogany and and you know glued on necks and all that stuff.

Where like as a Strat or a Tele is like so interchangeable you know? Yeah. I just feel like they're it's easier to capture the magic in in in those pieces. But what are what are what are your guys thoughts? Would you would you as a consumer like how much how much value do you put in it saying Gibson?

And are you willing to pay the extra amount to get the Gibson name on it? And knowing that you could have had a better instrument for for less money but maybe you know again it's like this perceived value thing is is is it's it's not you have to spend so much more to even get into you know like you're you're you're you're maybe saving on the residual but you have to spend almost double the amount you know?

And so it's like I don't know is it is that worth it? I think with what

Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): you're saying with your heritage being in and around let's say the 4 range. And an equivalent Gibson being well maybe not even equivalent because you're saying this one plays better than your R8.

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): It definitely plays better than my R8.

I'm sure that there's Gibsons out there that are on par. I don't think you would find something that plays better. I think you'd get something that's equal. You know like there's kind of like a standard when you get to a certain level it's like how much better of a setup can you get you know and and playability and fret fret work and all that stuff.

Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): I um if I think if if we're talking roughly four to five for the Heritage in this example which is obviously very specific and that sexy Cadillac green does a lot for me as well that color is gorgeous um versus an R8 that's to get roughly in that neighborhood of how it feels and sounds. for let's say seven ish.

I don't know if it's worth it for me to spend another $2500 to get Gibson stamped on the headstock. Um and again in a specific example with all of the controversy around Gibson over the years. A

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): lot of people are angry

Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): with Gibson. Exactly. And and I don't think a lot of it's unfounded. I think maybe they should be in some regard.

But that aside it just I think these days when I in the limited time that I pick up a guitar I want to pick it up and I want to just think man this instrument is incredible. Like I just love playing this guitar. More so than I wonder if in 25 years this Gibson will go up in value a little bit. I think I'd rather have the 25 years of really enjoying the instrument.

Um and who knows where Heritage will be at that point. I mean Heritage has been around for a while. I remember a buddy having a Heritage guitar when I was in high school which is not it's getting further and further away these days. And so I think I would probably rather take the 2 500 in savings.

Maybe get another instrument or maybe get a vintage amp to go along with this Heritage and then come out paying the same amount of money than I would getting the Gibson. I yeah I just I love the fact that firstly Heritage is capable of making a very quality instrument. For not an obscene price. I think that that's awesome.

It's not cheap. $4500 is still a ton of cash. It's a lot of money. But it's much better than $7K or $7.5K. And to get an instrument that's on par or even better I mean yeah I think I would take that heritage all day long.

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): It's crazy. I think my first car was $2500. So like it kind of like puts things into perspective.

Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): Yeah. I think my first car was 300,000 kilometers on it. It drove like it as well. I was definitely driving the squire of cars the first time I got. Oh yeah yeah yeah.

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): So what what was your first car? Quick aside get get it get in get in a little. So my parents

Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): the first new car my parents ever bought was a 1990 Mazda protege.

It was manual. And they drove that thing into the ground. And when it was well and truly buried six feet under they handed me the keys for my first car. And so I think I put it up. I put another I put another 10,000 - 25,000 kilometers on it and then it died. And that was it. But it was it was a good first car.

You know you you gotta have a beater. To appreciate a nicer car down the line. Mm. And I appreciate a car that runs these days when it turns on. Like there you go. That's what a car's supposed to do. And I'm grateful.

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): What was what what was your first car Brian?

Brian Omilion (Omilion Audio): It was um it was a 98 Ford Ranger. Um nice.

My dad worked for Ford. he retired from Ford 50 years a couple years ago. So we were all a Ford family being in Michigan. So Kalamazoo a heritage is isn't that far from where I grew up. Um but yeah I know I had that Ford Ranger. I had the little seats behind me that flipped out. That was so inconvenient.

No one ever sat back there. And yeah I I I had that one. I still miss that car. I I enjoyed that car. Like it was a nice little truck. It was a pickup right?

Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): Like a small small

Brian Omilion (Omilion Audio): pickup.

Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): Yeah.

Brian Omilion (Omilion Audio): It's a small little you know two seats with a little flip up if you really wanted to do a third seat. And then these two random little flip down seats that you basically face inward.

They face

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): each other. Yeah.

Brian Omilion (Omilion Audio): It basically became where my guitar sat and that kind of stuff. So but it was so good on gas. It was a 98. So um yeah. It was you know it was definitely older but yeah that that was mine. What about you Mason?

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): Well you know I I kinda had there's two there's two parts to this story.

Cause the cause um my dad had bought a car for us to learn on. My brother and I to learn on. Um that that we didn't end up having as our car once we got our license. And it the the one that we learned on was a Chevy Cavalier. And my dad the way he had he had framed it was that you know this is a pace car.

You know this is the pace car for NASCAR. So you're getting you know you're getting something cool here. And it had belonged to a nun. And in who was incontinent and so it it it it it it was in great shape at like 30 000 miles but it smelled like urine. It just reeked of urine. We had tried all sorts of things to try to remediate the urine smell.

Um but it it almost like when you got into the car you almost got like a headache because it was like so like ammonia. No even though like all else being equal it looked like a new car you know it was like a 93 maybe. And so at that point it was you know maybe seven or eight years old. Um so we learned in that car I was born in

Brian Omilion (Omilion Audio): 93.

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): Um and and then I ended up working for a mechanic over the summer to basically like buy a car that they were selling. And so I was like working for them. To get the car and that was that ended up being a Honda CRX which is like a small two door Honda that was very efficient you know and my parents didn't want me having a car that had too many seats because they were afraid like that I was you know gonna transport people and and you know you know this was before cell phones were really a thing in a car.

so they just didn't want people being distracted and you know distracting me as a driver. So they're like this has two seats. You're not gonna get into too much trouble.

Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): Ironically now you don't need to be distracted by people. You got your cell phone there.

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): You got your cell phone to distract you.

Yeah we didn't have that.

Brian Omilion (Omilion Audio): Did not have that no. No yeah I I bought my first car too. And I was at 16. I I had a job as soon as I could 15 and something so many months. And I saved up. I think I saved up 2 200 and I bought it for the ranger from my neighbor um who was no longer driving because he was paralyzed so unfortunately but it was really good condition but yeah yeah it was yeah it was.

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): Well you know you haven't lived until you've gotten to a nice urine soaked cavalier. I was gonna say

Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): I don't know how I've never heard this story. And I got that done. Gave you your first car. Yeah.

Brian Omilion (Omilion Audio): I'm surprised we didn't I'm surprised we didn't we didn't share these stories when we broke bread the first time at your house.

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): And Connors hadn't come up but now everybody gets to share in the enjoyment of of this story. But that being said how about how about G and L you guys have any experience with G and L? We did a cool video like a couple maybe a year a little over a year ago um where they built me like this super telecaster where it's got.

A humbucker neck a Strat kind of their equivalent of a Strat middle pickup and then their Tele bridge pickup. And you know with a five way selector switch and a coil tap and and and they're like that instrument was also amazing. Like again I probably well I don't even know if I would have any I guess you could order anything from the custom shop but like you couldn't just go and get that off the shelf from Fender even in the custom shop it'd have to be a custom order.

And if you did it it would be like. I don't know six or seven grand equally. I think that the equivalent from G& L for their custom shops are in the threes maybe? Have you guys had any experience with with G& L um as an alternative to to Fender?

Brian Omilion (Omilion Audio): I've I've seen them but I've never I don't think I've ever even played one personally.

I've seen like I have seen people play them and love them but. I

Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): got there and I don't even know what the series is called but it would have been kind of the equivalent to an American standard. It was so long ago that I I don't remember any of the details again when I was like in and around high school when I had disposable income and could buy more more music here.

Um and I had a telly style guitar semi hollow. It was a kind of tobacco bursts maple neck and I loved it. It was awesome. Thank you. It did have these um I think at that point in my mind at least this might not be the correct term but it was kind of experimental pickups. I think they were a Z3 pickup like a staggered poles.

And they sounded pretty good. I think if I could do it all over again I would have just gone with standard pickups. but the quality of the instrument felt good. I really enjoyed that. Um played nicely. And I you know had Fenders since and I don't know if again it was so long ago I don't know if I can say it was better or worse.

I just remember when I picked up that instrument. I really enjoyed playing it and um it sounded great through my gear pedalboard. I was the main limiting factor in that exchange my skill set on the instrument. but the instrument itself played quite nicely. So I I really enjoyed the GNL stuff for sure.

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): Well here here's a little a little look similarly. Um so here here's on Sweetwater's website. Here's some GNL custom shops. And um it looks like you're you're looking around the 4 000 range here. Um so similar to heritage. So like this one looks like it's got like a humbucker similar to kind of what I have.

Um so it's got like a humbucker thing or I don't know if those are just two singles that are butt up against each other. You got a you know kind of a single kind of strat bridge or strat middle. And then you know tele bridge. I don't know if these are all. Different pickups or what but this is like their ASAT.

Um so that's you know just a little under four going to the Fender custom shop here. It looks like you're mostly in the in the low to mid fives maybe high fives depending on what you've got here. Um they're all I guess you can find some in the mid fours too if it's kind of less less equipped.

Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): So not not the price Not as big of a gap between Not the discrepancy that we saw yeah between Gibson and Heritage.

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): Yeah not not as big of a gap. I don't know if we're paying more here because of the Paisley that is definitely a um a more involved um because these all appear to be Paisley and I've never even heard of the Espada. This is a this is like a totally different thing. I've not even heard of this. Have you guys heard of this?

No. What's their what's their strat style called again? Okay. That's called is it a Comanche? That sounds familiar. I don't know I forget what they call them. This is interesting I've never seen this before. I

Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): don't know if I'm a I don't know if I'm a fan of the the body shape. I think I would I maybe it's just my conditioning you know but I just I just love a Strat Natale.

Brian Omilion (Omilion Audio): It's just got that texture. Do you have

Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): any fingerboard? It is it's kind of like a Strat Tele combination.

Brian Omilion (Omilion Audio): Strat Tele and the pickups remind me of like a bass. Like bass pickups.

Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): Like an Ernie Ball are

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): powerful active electronics. It's a Z style pickups.

Brian Omilion (Omilion Audio): Interesting.

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): H. Humphrey Operation. Tritone preamp.

Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): Oh it's better than the dual tone. It's one better. Actually

Brian Omilion (Omilion Audio): that body style reminds me. Lemme see if I can find it. Um it's lemme see. I'm looking at it. eh I wanna say it's identical. Do you guys ever have much run in with the company Elliot guitars

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): there? I I've played I played one of their jazz masters that because they're in Georgia somewhere.

Yeah

Brian Omilion (Omilion Audio): that three is it was it like yeah there I guess I I've actually

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): I've played I've played James Duke's guitar before. That's an Elliot. And that's kind of more like a Mustang.

Brian Omilion (Omilion Audio): Yeah they yeah they call it. Yeah. It's very it's there are three 57. They call it but yeah it looks it looks like a Mustang.

That's that's one thing like their body style. It reminds me a lot of that one that you just showed but they're like Their prices for some of those of their guitars is you know five grand or more. And going on Reaver people are selling them practically for like only like 500 cheaper than what they bought it for.

So like that resale value is insane.

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): Yeah some of those smaller makers that have good followings they can get away with that because there's there's they just don't make enough and there's a high demand. I think Jim Tyler is another example of that. Yeah. Yeah they they they command high prices even on the used market because they're just the wait lists are long It's the end for

Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): guitars.

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): Yeah but

Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): we'll pay for speed.

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): Yeah Yeah but I think I think that probably I guess our conversation has kind of been more relegated to like Yeah brands that are definitely like mass market like I would presume that that heritage is making thousands of instruments every year Maybe not as many as Gibson is making But um but making thousands and I would I would presume the same for G& L but I would I would just say definitely not the same price differences between G& L and and and the Fender custom shop.

But I will say the G& L guitar that I got the the it's a Fiesta Red um with binding and all that stuff. It's a really good guitar. It had a roasted maple neck. It was a really really nice guitar I absolutely love that that instrument. From a versatility standpoint for a Tele I mean it's kind of like the ultimate sort of Nashville Tele thing.

I know some people hated the headstock was like the number one comment in the in the comment section of the video that I made it was like Yeah that guitar looks great but that headstock is hideous or you know whatever they said. Um and I think it's a little different you know it's an acquired taste but other than that it's a fantastic guitar.

One

Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): thing I will say though which I think is in favor of Gibson and Fender's you know lower end brands. I especially noticed this in Fender and I've played some awesome Epiphones I have to say as far as they felt good stayed in tune sounded quite nice. Um but even if you go to like a Mexican made Fender or even some Squires I think their experience they being Gibson and Fender more specifically Fender and what I'm about to say but Fender I think with their experience making the amount of instruments they have their processes their factories I'm just assuming this is what it is but they can make some half decent lower cost instruments.

Whereas some of the other brands I've experienced in the past. That make their you know lower cost line. I have been less than impressed with. And yeah I mean even right now in the shop over here I'm borrowing my brother in law's Mexican Strat. And I love playing it. It's great. And but if I were to just look at it on paper I'm like nah pass when he lent it to me and I just plugged it in like it sounded good.

It stayed in tune. It was set up nicely and it's it's a great instrument and it's cheap like relatively speaking to to an American standard or or something like that. so I think. I don't know if you guys would agree or if you've had complete opposite experiences but I would say some of the some of the Epiphones I've played have been horrible and some of the Squires and you know lower cost vendors have not also been great but I have found some that are are you know I'd be more than happy to pay for them and you know put them into regular rotation and save a few thousand dollars at the same time.

Um and um yeah but it just hasn't always been the case with. Smaller brands or brands with less experience doing their lower end line as well Um curious what you guys if you've had the similar experience or maybe you guys don't even touch the lower brands I mean maybe that's just me And maybe i've stooped.

I don't know but i'm i'm pretty happy to be down here on this level with some of the experiences i've had

Brian Omilion (Omilion Audio): I mean I I would say I mean that it's like the question mason was asking earlier about like would you pay the difference? For the name brand I think if I think there's two ways of looking at it If you're going in buying a new guitar with the mindset that yeah i'm going to buy a Gibson 335 Gibson Les Paul whatever your mind is pretty much set on that's the brain you're going to get so you're going to look through the different You know models of that guitar different whatever the Different different colors different setups and everything.

But if you're going into the mindset with I'm going to get this type of guitar but you're not really you know locked into a brand. I think you can have a more open mind. I mean you can put painter's tape over the heritage logo and over the Gibson labels. And you could play each of them and you know you might see a little differences or something but the playability I mean I played I can I can not remember this company they came out with a duo like a duo jet style guitar but it was 10 000.

I don't even know. I can't remember the company was the guitarist thing. Sure. You used to have I'm about to ask them just because I don't maybe I can't remember but it was like we had two of them and it played really good. But I had a do jet at the time and I was like That's really good but I would not pay an extra 8 000 for it.

Like personally I want to say maybe it was callings. I'll look it up in a minute. Um but yeah it was it was just one of those things. Like I think if you can find if if you're not set on that certain brand and you can find something that's A little bit cheaper. Obviously you know if you're if you're looking for you know a PRS and you find something that you like from Walmart that would be a little surprise a little surprising but but I'm not saying I mean I've had people that have played um choirs and absolutely you know loved it.

Cause they can you know they did some upgrades and stuff but I think it's because it's so subject to every single player there you know every player's different the neck how thick the neck is or if it's thin at the radius the type of guitar how it feels like I when I was at the guitar sanctuary play through a I think it was a Fender body but it had a bunch of modifications to it.

It was like a parts caster. And I played that thing for six years when I worked there as my demo guitar for boards and I loved it. And I would pick that guitar over a lot of stuff because it sounded great. Maybe it was a 1 200 parts caster guitar but it. Honestly it paid really well and I really enjoyed it.

So I think it's such it's just such a like I'm not in a way beneath playing a couple of hundred dollar guitar. If it fits what I need like I don't need thousands of dollars of guitar buying a $20,000 guitar. I would be like I'm going to sell this and buy it and pay off my car. Like that's that's what it comes down to for me.

Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): Nice.

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): Well guys I want to pivot into something that I'm sure is going to be on all of our minds as the holiday season approaches which is Black Friday getting the best out of a Black Friday sale deal. Some of them are already emerging at this moment because I know a lot of Black Friday sales are starting earlier and earlier but before we do that I want to break for a moment to talk about a few sponsors.

Brian Omilion (Omilion Audio): Absolutely. Yeah. So the first of our sponsors are going to be the guys over at the Guitar Sync Show we just talked about in McKinney Texas. They carry all sorts of Gibson even pre owned Gibson. I was actually just on their pre owned page and they had a Gulltop Les Paul um was P90s in it. So they have all sorts of pre owned new amps pedals the newest pedals you know that are coming out Black Friday sales.

So if you're going to be looking for a deal make sure you go check them out They would love to help you shoot them an email shoot them a text give them a call Visit them in the story won't be disappointed. guitar sanctuary in McKinney Texas.  Next are going to be the guys over at BTPA or best known as Best Tronics, Brad and those guys over there simply the best as I always say um It's funny enough how we always say we I just you know I just talked to Brad like Grant like I just talked to Brad yesterday or me or anything about I kid you not.

I just emailed Brad for some more um rack panel pieces that I need for this rack that I'm building. So they have rack stuff pedalboard stuff connectors cables they do all sorts of you know even little hidden tricks on their social media of It's going nowhere. So like they'll show videos of them bolting stuff down the boards.

So really great company. Um use the code chairman C H A I R M E N for 10 percent off over at B T P A “dachairs". “DACHAIRS” for 10 percent off over at B T P A . C O M. Thank you Mason. I appreciate that. Of course. You obviously want the right code to get the right deal.

So make sure you type in that red code so you won't be disappointed Um let them know that the chairman sent you and our final sponsor are going to be the guys over at Mono Creators. com they have awesome angle boards these um That their new slotted pedal board that is angled with their power supplies So they can fit all your pedal board needs as well as their gig bags for their guitars dual guitar bags So it can do electric acoustic Um pedalboard bags backpacks.

I have a couple of their backpacks that I have used for my different setups Um so use their code Chairman “C H A I R M E N" for 10 percent off. That code is right. So go use them get the discount. You won't be disappointed. Let them know that the chairman sent you by using that code. Get a deal this with this code.

Save it for Black Friday if it applies. Um you won't be disappointed. Their cases are durable. Very rugged. The I you know the zipper is one of the most I think overlooked things that a lot of people won't talk about but it's military grade very you know strong and It'll get you where you need to go and your stuff won't fall out when you're walking into a gig.

So check them out. I'll throw it back to you Mason.

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): Military grade.

Brian Omilion (Omilion Audio): Military grade.

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): What? One of the best recent videos or advertising campaigns that I've seen is for Lace Sensor Pickups. And they were doing this campaign for their loaded pickguard. And you know they had like this montage with this like voiceover of like you know a guy that would be narrating a monster truck rally.

And you know it's like everything's better when it's loaded you know and and it's just like a baked potato you know um and a mercury grand marquee and then it said uncle Jimmy at Thanksgiving it's got like this guy that's like on a speedboat that's in like a warehouse and the speedboat like comes off the ramp and goes into a baby pool.

And that was apparently what uncle Jimmy. Did when he was loaded at Thanksgiving but anyway it was a pretty funny commercial. If I can find it on Instagram I will I will link it here. It was it was a while ago but it was like it was pretty amazing that somebody green-lit that thing.

So hopefully Lace's Don Lace and his crew are doing a great Black Friday sale. But what are your what do you guys what have you guys seen? What have you heard? Um About any black Friday sales that may be occurring. I know of of some details around the the Sweetwater thing because as a vendor of theirs you know we're kind of privy to the types of things that they're running you know to get the you know they clear those sorts of discounts and stuff like that with us in advance but um Anything that you've heard on the wire that might be of interest to our listeners as far as getting a great deal on black Friday and um where they might go about looking or what things might be um unusually low priced that they may want to get in on while they still can.

I

Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): mean Sweetwater was the main one for me and then starting early that that's one I just heard from a buddy yesterday and he picked up a few things already um of which I'm hoping I get to take advantage of as well. Um but I haven't honestly I haven't really heard too much other than that. I would love for you guys to inform me if you got any inside tracks though because I might need to pick something up and take advantage myself.

What about you Brian?

Brian Omilion (Omilion Audio): I mean you know there there's going to be those common brands. I think that will do something. I know like like Walrus audio they always do either a like in a black Friday sale the black Friday the day or whatever a lot of people think it's not always going to be you know discounted stuff but like Walrus has done in the past and I had a client asked me about this yesterday is they always do like limited rounds of stuff.

So you make it like them all blacked out and like they did one They did one years ago that I actually did a video for um Like this one. So this is this halloween It's hard to see it but he did this Halloween I can pause the video. You can't pause it this Halloween one where like glowed or whatever. So like stuff like that like those are what those like companies I think they'll it'll literally be they'll be releasing you know a line of special edition whatever color or something but they'll also do discounts on maybe some of their other stuff.

So like Wallace audio Jackson audio. I'm sure Fulltone JHS I think has been releasing some new pedals so that they might do something. There's just a lot of these brands. You won't see stuff from like Strymon or I don't think you'll see stuff from Marist or anything like that. I could be wrong. Um but I would say a lot of those those key brands look at their past and see what they've done for those Black Friday sales and you can typically tell if they're going to do something.

So I mean that's You won't know until the week before at least sometimes two weeks or Sweetwater right now.

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): Yeah. So I think I think the standard discount that you'll find at Sweetwater through most of their vendors for the Black Friday sales are generally 15 percent off as kind of like the In the lesser discount and then there's some brands that will go even deeper than that.

So I know that our stuff will be 15 percent off for Vertex stuff. And I think that's fairly typical of most of the kind of the boutique y pedal brands. Like you'll see JHS kind of I think around that range. But as Grant had alluded to there are some brands like Roland and Boss that are doing even deeper discounts.

Because I have heard that people have been getting Larger boss delay units and such for 40 percent off of of the normal price. And so I know that deals are starting earlier than normal this year. I think that the consensus in the industry is that there are limited dollars available for the holiday season this year just due to the economics and that.

The earlier out of the gate that these sales are available that brands are going to be able to take advantage and retails are going to be able to take advantage of those available dollars to go to them as opposed to somewhere else. So I think you're already seeing Black Friday sales teased out as early as as we are right now in the season where you know it's before Thanksgiving.

Um or well before Thanksgiving. so I would say if there is a brand that you're considering I think Sweetwater is definitely a good place to take take a look and see you know what what might be available. And I think that kind of perusing their their wares you know sooner than later to kind of keep an eye on things that you might be interested in are are great.

And I think also a lot of mom and pop places. Are are also you know willing to to do deals and things like that. Especially if you're looking to buy maybe more than one thing. I think the option for bundling. It is definitely a thing and and I know that whether you're talking about a store like Sweetwater or again a brick and mortar shop there's a lot more incentive for brands as opposed to let's say doing super deep discounts on something is maybe saying okay well I'm going to be buying more than one thing here.

And what can we do if you're going to combine this product and this product? These are some ways where where you can be creative about being able to kind of maybe not get as big of a discount on something but you're getting things of value that you would want to pair with it or things that you would need to to go along as an accessory.

This is a a creative way to kind of get the most out of some of these deals. Um if if it's not quite the price that you want it to be but the but the store is willing to throw in Some instrument cables they're willing to throw in some other accessories that you know that you're going to be consuming you know whether that be strings or things of that nature this is another way to kind of get a little extra off the top.

And generally just to say like if if any brand like ours or JHS or whoever is is giving Sweetwater 15 percent off they're generally allowing all their other dealers to to be able to match that because it would be Problematic in the dynamic of the dealership relationship to say okay well Sweetwater is allowed to give this discount but our other dealers can't give this discount.

Generally you never see that. So I would say if if you you know don't if you want to buy the product in person and you know that you have a local dealer of whatever brand is that you're looking at but you see it's discounted on Sweetwater don't be afraid to go to your local dealer and say hey can you honor this price?

Because. My guess would be that that that that the company that is is allowing Sweetwater to discount is not going to restrict other dealers from from the same you know allowing the same discounts off of the minimum advertised prices that they kind of lift that for the holidays and and allow all dealers to do that.

So don't be afraid to go to a local dealer and try to get them to price match based on that. Other other other strategies guys. I mean you worked at a store Brian you got to know all the strategies. I mean does it work when you spit in your hand and you we try to make a deal. It it does. It does not. It does not.

I would. Didn't work during COVID. Doesn't work now.

Brian Omilion (Omilion Audio): It works better during COVID. We guys we got to spread it. They just

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): run away. Take

Brian Omilion (Omilion Audio): it. No I would say it's like and you know when I first started the first year you know I was mostly on the floor with them but as time went on and social media and stuff.

I was non stop with build So the last couple years I had I hadn't really been out on the floor Um I was lucky i'm a huge introvert So I am lucky enough to have been locked in the back But for the couple the first year or so that I was I did see a lot of people they would you know They'd come in for the sale and It is you know they're looking around you get the people that know exactly what they want but it's it's the thing don't Don't assume that everything is going to be on a discount because there is plenty of people that are like you know They pick up like five Strymon's and they're thinking like oh yeah i'm gonna get a deal on all these It's not going to happen.

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): Like not even Strymon Strymon's one of those brands that doesn't do discounts. They

Brian Omilion (Omilion Audio): don't do discounts. I don't even know if Marist does discounts. I could be wrong. Um I just can't remember but I mean Strymon's for sure. The one of the ones I mean there I think there was even I think you couldn't even offer free shipping.

For their stuff like and you can't like sell you can't

Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): bundle with their stuff either.

Brian Omilion (Omilion Audio): You can't bundle and you can't even sell like um you can't like the store can't sell a striving timeline on reverb. Like they can only sell it on their website or in the store. Like there's a lot of restrictions that a lot of these companies have.

I would say it's always best to go in. Call text whoever it is. Like we have the Guitar Sanctuary and Town Shop over here. Like call them ahead of time. Like hey are you doing any deals? So you kind of have an idea of what&