Preserving the Legacy of Alexander Dumble

Episode 124 - The Chairmen discuss the future of Dumble amps given his Estate has authorized the re-release of his legendary circuits

 

 

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): Ladies and gentlemen in the world of Tone we bid you good day wherever you are whatever time zone you hail from. And we hope all is well in your world especially as it relates to your guitar tone and your latest gear acquisitions. We congratulate you on whatever that may have been. And today we have a topic that I think is likely going to be something that we're hearing a lot more of in in the coming months and year which is about the It's a re emergence of Dumble amplifiers potentially and this is something that I'm I'm definitely in the periphery of as as not only a fan of of the amplifiers and the designs but I think just as somebody that that you know is is around certain brokers and and buyers and sellers.

Of these types of amplifiers. And there's always kind of been some ror as to what the future holds for the amplifier company. Predicated on the fact that the sort of the the brains of the operation and the name Dumble is no longer with us. And and what's to happen with the brand following his death.

And just to kind of give a little backstory for the listener and I apologize if this is redundant for some people and I'm sure that there are things that I may not touch on that you feel are are consequential or remarkable and if and if there are those things please feel free to add those to the comments but I I think that the the latest news has has come from another YouTuber YouTube.

named Jonathan Cordy. He is a I'd say a really excellent guitar player. and I only knew him primarily from from that side of things. I think we had a a video at one time where I think he he he made some videos about us and I wouldn't say they were particularly charitable but compartmentalizing that I think he has a really great channel.

I think he's a really great guitar player. And he had an interesting insight based on this video that had been with Joe Bonamassa and Norman Harris from Norman's Rare Guitars where he he sort of skipped to this section where Norman mentioned the owners of the Dumble name which are Matt Swanson and Drew Berlin and we'll get into that a little bit more I think during the course of the episode.

But he mentions that Dumbles are going to be made again. And Joe and Norman both sort of nod in the affirmative to agree that that's happening. And then more recently he sort of made I wouldn't say a retraction video but sort of a context video because I guess there was some pushback from some people on what I think were some sort of Dumble forums and I think one of the people that was Part of this was Andy Fuchs.

And if you know who Andy is he's a really really smart talented technician and amplifier maker. And I think he has I think he's based in New Jersey or New York and it has a sort of a repair facility. And then he also makes the Fuchs amplifiers which I'm sure many of us are familiar with. And I think he had clarified that you know I think he had said something to the degree of not.

Spreading false information. I don't know if Andy sort of listened to Jonathan's Sort of analysis. I don't think that that's where he was going with it I think he was just reporting what was being said and then maybe doing a little bit of analysis there thereafter But I think that you know Jonathan was trying to add some context to the previous video kind of based on on that and I think he said oh Well you know there may just be this thing where They make every amplifier you know as an example and then they sell it back to the company for a dollar or something like that so that they can show that you know they're still in the process of making amps.

I think that this is where we sort of get to the crux of of of why. I think that they're actually likely to come back in a larger capacity than they're claiming which is due to trademark. And many of us have probably seen that there is a company in in the UK that is on Denmark street the sort of famous street where you you could acquire musical gear.

you know going back to the beginning of the electric guitar maybe even before that. And they were selling a pedal that had the the Dumble logo and name on it. And I think they were even making an amplifier or or going to make an amplifier that said overdrive special on it. And I think that they had been in litigation with the estate and potentially even Dumble himself I'm not sure whether these pedals were only released posthumously you know with the Dumble name on it even though they're not made by Dumble or whether they were before that.

but in any case I think that in their legal proceedings I think that the estate came to realize that they they have some opportunities. Or there are some opportunities for people to be able to take advantage of them if they're not in the process of actively selling and manufacturing the amplifiers you know and that goes for Overdrive Special and Steel String Singer and you know the the main models I would presume that they would want to make.

And so I I think that. My the characterization on the for was well we'll just make one of each and that will satisfy it. But I'm not an expert in in in trademark law but I've had certainly a lot of experience in it as a consequence of making pedals for You know 15 years and you know and whether it's me or you know there's been plenty of other people that have run into this I think Robert Keeley has Brian Wampler has I think most people who are doing pedals have run into some sort of issue with a name or a trademark or something like that that they have to you know pivot or change the name or do whatever but I think that just making one is not going to satisfy Bye.

the requirements. I could be wrong on that. Again I'm not a legal expert and I would love for somebody who knows more about this to to to weigh in if you are a a trademark law attorney. But I I think that they need to be like advertising that they're selling it. And like actually in making them you know or at least on a custom order contingency that that they have to be able some people have to be able to get them in order for them to be able to to continue to say that the the trademark is active.

And and I think for Dumble it may be you know generally different you know like I'm not sure if like fanny packs and tank tops with Dumble on it are gonna satisfy the trademark. I'd buy one. And I think that people wouldn't. I think that they do make Dumble t shirts because I've seen I've seen them at some of the guitar shows.

and I've seen people wear them. so I know that they exist but I think that it's going to take more than that in order for them to be able to protect the things that are the real intellectual property of Dumble which is the amplifiers and the and the circuits and things like that. so in any case I know that that was a lot that was a pretty big dp there to to kind of start.

But Where are you guys with this? I know we've kind of read there's an article here that that we'll be referencing a little bit which is basically just rehashing what what was in Jonathan Cordy's video but what are your guys sort of initial thoughts on this  You know like what are your what are your feelings what are the the reactions that you have initially and then maybe we can dive into some of the other aspects of of this and and the possible or probable you know things that we might see in the future.

Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): I Yeah you go. Yeah I mean I'm a little I'm a little skeptical. I am by no means not even close to being I wouldn't even call myself a well informed on the Dumble front other than the name and reputation that precedes them. But it just feels like from what you've already said and a couple things you said before we even hit record today that these guys they have the access to the intellectual property they have the access to schematics they have everything they need to resurrect the Dumble name.

But it seems like and maybe feels like right from the beginning there's a little bit of everything's a little bit cloak and dagger. And even from the wording on the website the Dumbleamps.com basically it's a coming soon page essentially. the wording is very much we are going to be manufacturing and creating products and lines and services.

And there's going to be information there to make sure that your Dumble is authentic or that you didn't buy a fake. You know there's some to me what feels like clear wording on this landing page. And then to hear that behind the scenes like well maybe not like it's maybe it's not as clear as what it looks like on the landing page.

So it's just giving me this weird feeling. I would say best case scenario let's say they do come out with I don't know 10 of each model every year. And they're producing in low quantities but they are producing. For someone like me and the vast majority of people out there that cannot afford an actual Dumble.

Like one that Dumble himself hand built. It's exciting to me to think that it will be more likely for me to be able to actually play through one than it is right now which is next to impossible. And so I do love the idea that the amps are coming back. There will obviously be a clear divide if these are getting manufactured of.

It was made by Dumble himself. It's an actual Dumble era amp versus a I don't know what you would call this new era new under new ownership era Dumble amp. Like you know I don't I would be shocked if these amps especially if they're being manufactured carried anywhere close to the same value that the originals do but the thought that I could experience that tone that I have heard about and only ever heard replicated I've never heard the original So I get pretty excited about that you know that thought and that possibility.

So I'm I'm skeptically excited I think is kind of where I'm sitting right now. I don't know if that's fair. What about you Brian?

Brian Omilion (Omilion Audio): Yeah no I'm going to say but I mean you know hearing you know John Mayer and other musicians that have played them or play them and stuff like it's exciting here because you get products that come out from other companies.

That say it's a Dumble you know it's a Dumble pedal or it's a Dumble whatever it is. And people are like Oh yeah I'm running a Dumble profile. 98 percent of the time they've never played a real Dumble. I mean to be honest there's such a small percentage. So I'm always skeptical when any company releases something that says it's a Dumble without like it's like it's like yeah cool.

That could yeah that could sound like a Dumble but like can a real you know can someone that owns a Dumble Say that it is. And there's so you know if you if you own a Dumble I don't think you're buying like a SIM pedal or whatever or some Dumble ask or a clone of a Dumble or whatever. So hearing that there's a potential of something coming back that sounds awesome.

It'd be really cool. Cause it's one of those things. I mean the people that have them I mean I don't know if they keep them in safe. So I don't know where they keep this kind of stuff. Cause they're so expensive. You know they're not going to take them on the the road or I guess maybe no one does I don't know.

Joe Will Joe has to does he's touring him? I think so. Yeah. Yeah that's true. I when I I I went to I got the the opportunity to go to his concert. 'cause one of my clients Josh Smith plays with him and I did get to see him in person. I did not touch him. but they looked beautiful. You didn't touch Joe?

Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): Or you didn't touch the ants? I would like to brush your hair please Joe. Stay still.

Brian Omilion (Omilion Audio): I did not do either. No I got to look at them. They're beautiful ants and stuff. but you know especially the price tag is to me mind blowing. Just because like some of the price tags are You could buy a house

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): in Texas for

Brian Omilion (Omilion Audio): that.

Literally. How much did they go for? A hundred grand? Or more.

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): Oh way more. Way more. Yeah. At least 200 250. I think there's a I think there's one that recently sold for 375. That's nuts.

Brian Omilion (Omilion Audio): Listen I bought my house for 200 so like the fact that an amplifier could be more than my house is unreal. But I I think it's exciting to have the opportunity especially if they come if they come back.

If they are somewhat affordable I I don't know. I mean I don't know. I can't see

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): them being less than 50 grand. Yeah. I get that. That's

Brian Omilion (Omilion Audio): I mean I get that they yeah it makes sense. The thing that I'm curious of is will it will it piss off their their clients that have paid 300 000 for the amp?

Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): Well I even if you look at like a vintage someone buying a vintage burst and Gibson doing a reissue.

Like. It might have the same specs but it's not the same instrument. And I think you aren't buying When you're buying a Dumble you are not buying the physical material. You're buying the piece of history you're buying the legacy and you're most importantly buying something that cannot ever be replicated.

Even if you use the same components it is not the same amp because of the history and the hands that touched it and where it's been. So I mean I don't think it'll have anything Personally I could be wrong. I don't think this will affect value of previously made Dumbles. But I think it will I don't know I think it will only further entrench the Dumble name but also give people a bit more access.

It'll probably improve all these captures that are out there as well. Because now you might be able to someone can more easily buy a 50 000 or 40 000 newly made Dumble than they can A three even if they could afford the price tag it doesn't mean they can buy one. Someone has to be willing to part with it first.

Did you say did you

Brian Omilion (Omilion Audio): say easily in 50 and 50 grand in the same sentence? I know I don't have I don't have I don't know about you guys but.

Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): When I when I go to bed at night and put my head down on my my hundos and my my pillowcase full of cash I'm just like where can I where can I invest this? Easier than 50 easier 50 than 300.

But yes I don't imagine these to be cheap.

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): I'm just thinking about it from the perspective though of like people would buy a car for 50 000 in in a in a typical family. I think even like you know I was surprised to look at this because I haven't I haven't bought a car since before the pandemic. You do a lot

Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): of walking I hear.

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): I I have I have a car. Oh sorry. I haven't I haven't bought one since before the pandemic or like right before the pandemic. But you know I feel like a isn't like an Accord like a Honda Accord's like almost 50 grand now. Like the car prices are crazy but I'm saying this to say if it's 50 grand a family of four is having to buy you know spend 50 grand or finance 50 grand to get a car.

You know presumably you know you bought this this could be like making another car payment if you know this is assuming that the price is actually that. And I have no I have no idea. I was just throwing out a number that I thought. I was going

Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): to guess between 10 and 20 but. So even looking at  what's his name the guy that did the YouTube video?

Jonathan Corzine. Jonathan. Even looking at Jonathan's video he brings up what Dumbles were before they were Dumbles. Before they were so sought after that the price was just obnoxious. And even when they were brand new accessible to you Whoever could afford them. They were expensive amps. Yeah sure.

I mean the first equivalent that came to mind was 2 Rock. And you look at some of the limited runs that 2 Rock does and in Canadian dollars they're up in you know the 10 000 range maybe six or seven American. And so if these Dumbles are even two to three times that much they're still you know obviously getting up.

Yeah they'll

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): be they'll be more for sure. again I have I think I have no no context for that number other than just kind of like thinking of It'd be interesting to see. I googled it.

Brian Omilion (Omilion Audio): It says the 100 watt overdrive head originally sold for 1 925 while the other models costed up to 5 000 before customization.

Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): In

Brian Omilion (Omilion Audio): what year though? In the early days. That's just what Google says.

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): Yeah

Brian Omilion (Omilion Audio): I would I would my

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): understanding is closer you know and when I was in high school and I would go to True Tone he would be doing mods out of there and and I would I didn't I didn't interact with him but I had seen him there before doing like a pickup and I think I think actually Bill Asher who is at the time he was I think he was maybe doing repairs and stuff like that.

He hadn't started his guitar company yet but Bill Bill knew him. And I he had you know I think introduced me at one point. I'm pretty sure that that was the first time I had I had like said like somebody said Oh that's Dumble you know?

Brian Omilion (Omilion Audio): Yeah.

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): but I think at that time this would have been in the late nineties or early two thousands maybe.

I think it was like 20 or 30 grand if he was building it at the time. But I think that they were maybe a little more than that if you bought them second hand. Because you never you didn't know how long you were going to wait. And I think in the early 2010s I think Mike Landau I think Mike Landau's was like 50 000.

Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): I

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): think so I kind of kind of think that that was the number but I think he had been waiting for a while so I I think he had I think he had been waiting for at least five years maybe it was more than that and my remembrance was that he didn't he he he had ordered like a head and cab But I think he had just got the head and he was just like okay I'll just take it now because I don't know how much longer it's going to be for the cab.

that was that was my recollection on that. But I think getting back to the website it says here in in no uncertain terms in addition to in addition to continuing to manufacture and sell Dumble amplifiers new and exciting product lines and services are in the works. All of which will continue to honor the legacy of Mr.

Dumble albeit in the mysterious Dumble fashion. So I don't know that they're I don't know that this is unambiguous or this is pretty unambiguously saying that They're going to make amps. and and so I don't know it's I guess there's just some some differences in in interpretation as to what it means if they say they're going to be making amps again.

And and I don't think that that's

Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): Maybe they're getting into the profile game. Maybe they're making amps.

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): Well I guess you'll you'll see with the fidelity to which that that they're going to honor the legacy. Cause I would say from a business standpoint. Certainly they would be able to cash in and if they if they decided that they were going to go that route with with you know doing licensing of of profiles of Dumbles or allowing the companies to come in and do their profiles.

Yeah I I I think that that's that's you know a million dollar idea right there undoubtedly. You know and I think that one thing that's really really Honorable about Dumble is is I my understanding is that he had lots of opportunities to cash in over the course of his career. He could have he could have I think he had an opportunity with Fender to do something.

I feel like he had an opportunity with Sur to do something at one point. I know that he had all sorts of offers from Japan. To do stuff and he never did it. And in that in that sense he was like a very principled artist that was unwavering when it came to his art. And there you know I think that that's that's one thing that I think his his fans and and the owners of his amps respected about him.

Is that there was an element to his mindset that was sort of beyond the you know it was beyond the money. It was like it was really about the the product and his name and and I you know have a lot of respect have a lot of respect for that. I think getting back to the the videos and and and some of the the responses you know I mean I I think that I think that they have to be making the amps whether they're admitting it or not.

I think that that I just don't see how they're gonna be able to protect the name if they're not. I think that they would continue to run into this issue where they have they're gonna have people that are are gonna try to test them and that there there's just gonna be a a slew of lengthy legal battles for them.

So I I just don't see how they're gonna circumvent that unless they're actually actively manufacturing. And I think that they have some really great avenues that they could pursue you know and it cause Dumble did have some pedals that had come out here and there they had had some like effects loop style boxes that that are kind of like a Dumble later.

And a pedal like that would be a fairly easy product for them to produce. I think that the schematics are fairly easily available. I've seen I've seen one in person. I've seen several in photos. the one that I saw was actually solid state. Which in my opinion is an upgrade for that purpose for for an effects loop of an amplifier.

And it was called the Box-a-lator. I think something like that would be like a really cool product. You know certainly Dumble Merch I think would would sell well if people were aware that it existed. I think that there's like a lot of avenues that that they could pursue. I think it just depends on what they've internalized as being the acceptable Like like what Dumble would approve of versus like what they need to do in order to keep the legacy alive.

And I'm sure that that's probably a really difficult negotiation for them because on one hand you know Dumble wouldn't Dumble wouldn't couldn't protect everything that he was doing because he was like a one man show. And and and and I think also I don't not knowing him there seemed to be some sort of haphazard nature to the way that he would.

He would do things. I think now that it's being owned by you know people that are real businessmen you know they have a responsibility to the business to keep the legacy alive. And there may be some decisions that they have to make that that are in the best interest of the survival of the company that may not have exactly been you know intended.

The way that Dumble would have envisioned it and so I I I I don't envy the position that that they're in and having to sort of be reflective and and sort of put you know his consciousness into their decision making. but I I'm excited to see what what comes out. I think that you know a Trainwreck something similar happened where it's continued to be made by somebody else that kind of knew the the design philosophy of Ken Fisher.

and continue to make the the train wreck amplifiers. And you know they're they don't hold the same value that the new ones do but my understanding is that they're principally the same amplifier. I think the challenge here with the Dumble though and I'm curious about your guys take on this is you know for those of us that know Dumbles well even though it's it's a name like an overdrive special or a steel string singer or whatever it may be.

Every one of those was like a custom made suit for the the the player. So you were in essence getting Dumble to to to tailor your tone to you. And. And so this is always sort of an interesting thing on the used market where you're basically buying somebody else's custom made suit. So if you're not a you know a 32 long or whatever it is you can have an interesting fit in certain places because it it may not fit you right?

Because it wasn't made for you know your attack and and all this stuff. And in by modifying it then you risk devaluing the amp and all those things. So I think that that that's going to be the the challenge is is how so much of the value of Dumble's amps were in the way that he understood what you needed when he heard you play or when you sent in an audition tape and he was tasked with building you an amplifier he had this internal lookup table where he could say okay I'm hearing these things.

And this is how I can you know sort of shape this amplifier to what I'm hearing here and get this person you know what I think they need.

Brian Omilion (Omilion Audio): Yeah.

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): you can have the best amp builder in the world. Recreating a a Dumble Overdrive Special but we can't re-create Dumble's brain. Yeah. And and so you know part so much of what we're paying for are the intuitions of of of Dumble.

Mm-Hmm. . And so I I'm I'm wondering how they're gonna approach that. Or if they're going to try to replicate certain serial numbers but even even within that I don't think I don't think Dumble really did that. because I I know several owners of Dumbles that have said Oh I like this guy's amp. Can you make this guy's amp you know or can you make mine more like this guy's amp?

Or another version of this is. I love your personal amp Dumble. Can you make me that same amp? And then when they get it it doesn't sound the same as Dumble's amp. Because I think that I think to a degree like a lot of the parts were harvested from other amps from vintage fenders and such. And I also wonder like with the with everything being so bespoke was was it even really possible to get a hundred percent you know like his amps weren't repeatable by design.

It wasn't like an assembly line where they were trying to keep things within a 5 percent tolerance or whatever the the range was.  so that that I'm really curious about. And then and then maybe after after we talk about this we'll we'll break for an ad and then we can talk about who might be the person building these.

So any any thoughts on that? Like how as like a customer or as just like a somebody that that you know is is is a guitar player how do you think that that's going to work if if we don't have the intuition of Dumble which is like the real value of like what made these amps really special?

Brian Omilion (Omilion Audio): Yeah I mean

It's hard to say like I don't think it's gonna be identical. It's the thing is like even Don't missile Dumbledore. What's it? What is his name? I'm awful with names

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): Howard Alexander Dumbledore.

Brian Omilion (Omilion Audio): Okay. I'm just a mr. Dumbledore Even him like doing the amps like no amp is The same I think whoever comes in to do to do it You It's it's gonna be the same thing.

I I think they maybe get really close or oh yeah It's gonna be oh yeah that sounds like a Dumble or oh yeah I think that sounds like it I think that's I don't think it's ever it's it's just hard to say because not every single one is a copy and paste I think you will get a Dumble Like and I wouldn't say I mean maybe maybe that's surprising but to be honest you can play five amps in front of me and say they're all Dumbles.

And I would have no idea. Cause I've I've never heard a Dumble. I mean I have lied once twice I guess but. Even then that guitarist was switching between the two rock and between these other amps. And like so like I never knew oh yeah that's the like I knew that was a Dumble. It wasn't. So I think I think they'll get close.

I don't think they're just personally like cause on the website you know when they talk like looking at it the fact that it's it's just What you know what you read about what what it's what they're saying new you know continue exciting product lines and services are in the works and stuff like that.

Like I don't think they're only gonna do amps. I like especially in this market I mean maybe they're only catering to the people that want tube amps but like I don't know from a business perspective it seems like they should come out. Maybe with some pedals or something that are Dumbles like Dumble pedals or whatever because they even say it in here like You know counterfeits of potential so potential buyers don't get scammed like providing information about counterfeits and stuff.

So I don't know if that is them you know trying to come out with products that battle other companies that have Dumble style pedals. I don't know. There's so many routes it could go because the pedal market and the ant market and all that market is so over saturated with stuff. It'll be interesting to see.

I can't really say what I think it's going to be because they could blow everyone and come out blow everyone's mind and come out with one option of one AMP event. That's it. I don't know. So that's what I think.

Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): I think if if If you look at it as if we were trying to replicate someone else's art and if you just take a straight artist like I'm I'm thinking Van Gogh how do you let's say we had someone that had the rights to Van Gogh's artwork and were able to replicate it under the Van Gogh name.

All you can do really like you said Mason you can't take his brain and then get it to just start replicating things. Who knows where we'll be with AI in 10 years but right now you can't do it. And but what you can do is you can look at the techniques you can look at the approach the use of color the size of the canvas.

Like you can get insights but you obviously can't get the brain behind it. And so I wonder if what they would do is take I'm just making up numbers here. Let's say there's 50 overdrive specials. They can take the general approach the general sound the approximation of what a typical overdrive special tends what range it tends to sit in and then a steel string singer what do these amps tend to sit in what are their general characteristics and then maybe create an amp from generalities or generalizations and techniques and brushstrokes and tonal characteristics.

But if every amp if every amp was tailored to a musician they cannot just make one of them and call it an amp. This is the overdrive special. Well which one? Well generally it's an overdrive special. Well but now we're losing some of the magic again. And so that's where I just I think it will have to be by design an approximation unless they go back into this custom we're only making these in a custom shop approach.

And we'll start with an overdrive special platform and then tweak to your position from there. But then the tweaking is not being done by Dumble anymore. It's going to be someone else's take on what this should be. And so I don't think there really is going to be a way to do this. And I think the one other point I'll make is If I would let's say someone gave me a few hundred thousand dollars which I'm willing to accept.

and and I was able to go and buy a Dumble. I personally I am not buying a Dumble for tone. I would obviously play it. But I really at the end of the day I don't care what it sounds like. I am buying a I'm buying a Dumble because it's of what it stands for and the place in history that it has I'm buying a muse piece.

I would not have the guts. I like all the kudos to Joe Bonamassa. I would not have the guts to tour one just in case because for me it's you know it's such a rare a rarity to be able to purchase something like that. But I am buying it to basically. Be able to have a conversation starter and hopefully an appreciable asset over time.

but if it if it sounds great or it doesn't sound great that's less consequential to me than the fact that it's a genuine unadulterated made by Dumble piece of history. Like that's what I'm really purchasing. So I think these new amps if they're manufacturing them they have to sound great. especially if they're if they're manufacturing them in quantity.

Yeah. But I don't think we'll really I think you'll always have to say this is a 2024 Onward Dumble versus a pre 2024 made by Howard himself Dumble. They're just you can't get around it. Oh yeah totally. yeah. Price tag or not 50 000 10 000 it's not going to be This might be this might be cruel wording.

It's not going to be a genuine Dumble in my opinion.

Brian Omilion (Omilion Audio): Yeah.

Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): I don't know Mason what do you think?

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): Well I'd like to talk more but before we do I want to break for a moment to talk about a few sponsors that make the podcast possible. Let me turn that over to you all to talk about that.

Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): I'll take it. I feel like we're playing a nice game of tennis here you know?

I I give you a nice volley and you're like I'm going to send that one right back. And I'll take it. Right. Just get ready Mason. Get in the brace position here. This is coming at you. Nice nice

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): drop volley you have to run up for.

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Mason I'm going to throw it back to you.

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): Yeah you gotta test Brad. I feel like it's like you know when you go to the grocery store and you and you and you have you know an obscure herb and they have to remember the cashier that is you know what the what the number is of you know flat leaf parsley flat leaf parsley or you know.

Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): I'm actually not unconvinced that Brad isn't just you know an AI bot. I've never met him in person but the speed at which he gets back to you. Did you ask for his driver's license for proof that it's actually Brad? Either way he's very good at what he does. It's a it's a lot of a lot of work. Is he one

Brian Omilion (Omilion Audio): of those Tesla robots?

Is he one of the Tesla hans?

Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): You never know. You never know.

Brian Omilion (Omilion Audio): You never know. Oh

Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): all right. Dumbles. Sorry. I'm getting off track here on skews and flat leaf parsley. And we're talking about doubles today.

Brian Omilion (Omilion Audio): Got me on parsley.

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): It used to be garnish. Now it's now it's part of the way of life. Yeah. so I guess the the the place to pivot to here is who's going to make them. Like let's let's just say some version of this is true whether it's going to be one amp that they're just making representative models of. I don't know if that fulfills whatever the requisites are to say that you're you know in in in the active process of of building amplifiers with that name and that's that's proof enough.

but I think the question is just who's going to who's going to build the amps. the my understanding is that it will be somebody in in Orange California. And I I don't know if that's. Somebody that Drew knew Drew Berlin who's one of the the the owners of the the Dumble brand and I think one of the people that was helping manage the estate he's based in Orange County I believe and you know Drew's background was one of the Burst Brothers one of the the curators of the vintage room at the Guitar Center in Hollywood.

and you know was kind of  a guy that had a relationship with a lot of artists and collectors and. You know kind of became this expert curator and authenticator and connector of instruments with people and people with instruments and so my understanding is that there's somebody there that has been kind of given the The stamp of approval by Dumble and I think even while Dumble was still alive he was helping sort of lighten the load I think for certain repairs and things like that that were kind of funneled through Dumble and that that Drew and Matt maybe helped oversee or helped kind of manage the the repairs.

And I think this guy also has helped with some of the authentication. I think for now I know his name but I I I want to not state what it is just in the event that Either I'm wrong about it. I don't think I am but I also don't want to like inundate him with people that are like Hey can you just build me a Dumble like on the side or you know but but in any case I think that I think that he's probably going to be the one that's building them would be my best guess.

because he again had the the blessing of Dumble which which was not something that I think he gave out to anybody. My understanding is is that if you had. Somebody who was not Dumble work on your amp that could lead to being disavowed by Dumble completely. And I I think he was quite sensitive to the idea that somebody else would repair his amps.

The irony was is that he didn't have a great track record at being able to turn around and repair people's amps. I can remember once Robin Ford telling me that and this isn't a slide on Dumble this is just sort of a funny story that sort of speaks to this is that you know Robin had said that the overdrive channel in his amp hadn't worked for years.

And I was building him this this pedal board at the time and we were we were supposed to actually go out and see Dumble Because I think Dumbledore was gonna try to fix the the issue while Robin was there. And and and Robin was gonna show him the pedalboard and they were gonna potentially try to figure out ways to to optimize it with the use of the overdrive channel because The way that we built it he was using primarily the Zendrive to produce the gain through the clean channel.

And we knew as soon as the overdrive was involved some of the the processing effects like delay and reverb would be suboptimal running it into the front of the amp. But I I for whatever reason I think it that that visit got canceled and it never ended up happening. And I think to this day the the overdrive channel still doesn't work in Robin's prized Dumble Overdrive special.

And I think Robin was so loyal to Dumble he didn't want to have anybody else touch it. And I think he had kind of like almost developed a liking to this workaround which was just to use the clean channel and use pedals in front of the amp. but this is all to say that Even even a guy who you know is so much synonymous with the Dumble name even he struggled to get an appointment with Dumble you know for for a modification or a repair that he was going to be there and wait for.

so I I think it was it was fairly complicated. but anyway getting back to the person that will likely build them I think it's going to be this guy in in Orange California. And I think he was involved with some of the authentication because as you guys know we've done some. Some videos of Dumble amplifiers that were gonna be up for sale or were actively being sold and it was just to kind of create some content around them and we were very generously granted some access to those and and I'll say not even all those videos came out because sometimes you know the people that were buying them got them so quickly that the video wasn't produced yet before it was purchased and then that individual just didn't want there to be any content out there about it.

and so they they would you know and we we weren't we were not paying for the creation of the video. So we were being basically hired to to to create the videos. so it wasn't like we were you know losing out other than you know just you know we don't get the the the pleasure of getting to share that with with other people.

But so I think I think we've done pretty close to 10 videos of of a combination of overdrive specials and a few other models like Steel String Singers Man's Amp which is basically an overdrive special in a rack format.

Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): Can I ask you Mason just on that point really quickly if speaking to two guys who don't have experience with one on one with a Dumble if there was one of those that stood out to you as being like cream of the crop type thing one that stood out as being a bit that connected with you let's say on a on a personal level more than others.

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): Yeah well it's it's it's difficult to say because not all of them we played in the same environment. and so like the very first Dumble that we did a video of was was the one that Jason Isbell owns now which was formerly owned by Dennis Herring and that was a really excellent example of a 50 watt.

Version a few things that were unique about the recording of that as it was done in basically a warehouse So we couldn't so we couldn't so we couldn't we couldn't really make use of room mics We had to pretty much just close mic it which gives you some information but doesn't I think I don't think it puts the listener in the room with it as well.

whereas most of the subsequent ones we did in a real recording studio. And I think that they they were I think as far as room sounds were concerned they were considerably better. and so I think that some of that influences how I hear it. I can I think just like being a player in the room with the amp I think that that that that that one that Jason Isbell has is really excellent.

The other one that that we haven't released but we did shoot was was one that was owned by this Dallas guitar legend named Kimbo Davis. And it was an amplifier that it was an overdrive special. It had gone through some modifications by Dumble over time. it had like a a couple of different mods that he had done.

I think it was a rock city mod. It had a hundred and a hundred watt 50 watt thing a half power switch. And not not that that really does much to me. I think that again once you're if you're dealing with the transformer for a hundred watt amp those those switches don't really do much for me but in any case it had some mods done to it and it had they had a great documentation kind of showing the history of the mods.

there were some questions as to you know who had done the work on on on I guess some repairs and stuff like that over time because I I believe that a potential buyer of the amplifier who had been given pictures of the inside shared them with. The Dumble the managers of the Dumble estate are the owners of the Dumble name Drew and Matt.

I think they had taken the photos to the the guy in Orange County that does some of the repairs and I think is gonna be the guy building the amps and I guess he said that there was some Things in the amp that that may have been evidence that that they weren't done by a Dumble because you know a certain color this wasn't used or a certain type of that wasn't used and you know I don't know that it was substantiated but I think it just you know I think it it it it gives maybe a collector pause.

When the guys that are sort of acting as the authenticators are calling into question that there may be some yeah suspicion But that withstanding That was probably the best sounding one Like like if you just if you just cared if the tone was this it was the thing That was the best one. I think the Kimbo Davis one.

Yeah and so I think that that one is really really excellent It's got a lot of mids you know but it's kind of like You When you when you hear examples of Dumbles that have been used in like famous recordings it kind of had all that. It had it could do those things pretty effortlessly. And I felt like you know you didn't have to work too hard to get there.

And and so for my plain sensibilities That to me was the best one. And it also looked really cool. It had the brown suede it had the Vox you know checkered grill cloth loves that look you know and and and all that stuff. So it it was a really beautiful amp. and I think that the cabinet was not original for the speaker is my understanding but it matched the head.

but I I mean I I don't think that that's that that big of a deal. . But but in any case yeah I would say that that one that was that was Kimbo Davis I think that was number one 119 something like that.  I think that was the that was the number but it was a really beautiful amp. I hope that video comes out because you know I think I think I think that that that I think that there was initially some that the buyer of the amp didn't want it to come out and I think I think that now they're okay with it.

I need to double check that. I think I'd gotten an email saying no let's push forward and let's put out the video.

Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): Yes.

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): Very cool. So so I think so I think that that's that's a that's positive. And and I think that people will really dig this amp. It's a really really some of them are super aggressive.

You know they have like a ton of gain. Like one of them the one that Jackson Brown owned that David Lindley used I think it was the one that was on the live Running on Empty. That almost was like a fuzz. It was so had so much gain. And that was pretty unique. Most of them that I had played up until that point didn't have a lot of gain.

They were they were they were surprising that that they weren't as overdriven as you would think. and then that one was like really overdue. And

Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): that's and you're confident that's how it was supposed to be? Didn't have a fault or?

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): I don't think so because I mean when you go to the clean channel it was pretty standard kind of fender y clean and it had an electro voice speaker in it.

so you weren't getting a lot of speaker or if any speaker distortion from that. and it didn't sound like it it didn't sound like something was wrong it just sounded like wow this thing is like a real fire breathing monster. You know because I think too on Slide you would want sort of that compression and the sustain you know in a way that maybe somebody wouldn't want as much for you know A standard you know guitar.

Brian Omilion (Omilion Audio): Yeah.

Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): But any any thoughts on on on that? Like you know I I would I would presume that that would be the person that would need to need to build them. I guess I'm wondering I guess my question to you on this is if they're not being built by Dumble and they're being just there and they're being built by somebody who.

Is is a sort of an authorized repairman while Dumble was still alive. What's the incremental difference between somebody like that and or an Andy Fuchs or a  Bill Krinard who is you know the the the designer of the Two-Rock’s or other people that are deeply rooted? In their understanding in sort of scholarship around Dumble amps and I guess like what's the differentiator now?

You know cause in some ways I feel like it levels the playing field because now they're all interpretations. Of of what Dumble would've done what differentiates it other than the name which I I I'm not gonna discount is is hugely important. What changes now? You know because because of that is it is it a more level playing field and you know 'cause a lot of these guys and I know this is true of Andy I know this is true of Bill Ard.

I know this is true of Brandon Montgomery from Bludotone. They've all been in countless Dumble amplifiers and done repairs and some of the real iconic ones. you know from you know between the three of them Santana and John Mayer and Larry Carlton and all these really famous Dumbles. and so you know like what are we how are we evaluating those?

What do you guys think about that?

Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): I think my big thing with this is it's still an approximation and I'm trying to think of a good enough analogy but even if you got someone out there that had studied even been within studio with John Mayer as he's recording Continuum they can get a little bit of an idea of why he chose these parts how he was holding and attacking the guitar pedals used but they still don't have the life experience and the context of how he grew up and struggled with the instrument to get to that point.

Like you just you can never perfectly replicate it. And I don't think they should ever market it as that. I think it would I don't know I might regret saying this later but I think it's almost to a point like yeah it's the Dumble name But it's a db bull. It's almost to a degree and please push back guys because this might be taking it one step too far but it's almost to a degree of just any of these other companies.

that have done their best to replicate a Dumble that Dumble will be suing in future. Like they are doing their best to approximate a now lost art form. It will never be a one to one and I think that's where it's probably gonna be the closest thing to ever be out there. It sounds like they're getting the right people they have the original schematics but they will never be Alexander Dumble Howard Alexander Dumble.

It just can't you can't replicate the con even even like one last thing that I'll throw to you Brian. Dumble would you said Mason Dumble would look at audition tapes or he would watch you play. And then he would make a series of decisions that would result in an amp that hopefully that artist really loved and connected with.

And now we are taking guys that are looking at what Dumble did as f