The Evolution of Keeley Electronics with Robert Keeley
TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 5, 2024
Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): Ladies and gentlemen in the world of tone we have one of the individuals on Mount Rushmore of the guitar pedal world. It's none other than the great Robert Keeley known as Maestro by those that know him best. welcome Robert. And thank you for firstly everything you do everything you've done and everything you will do.
We are honored to have you here today Guitar Pedal Royalty.
Robert Keeley (Keeley Electronics): Well thank you. That's quite an introduction. I think that's probably the grandest introduction I've ever had Mason. That's pretty awesome. It is fun being in this pedal world and I've always approached it as as a as a fun adventure. You know what I mean?
I don't know if I had the right inspiration going into business or what but. I kind of I kind of wanted it to be a a magical journey you know what I mean? And if I could drag as many people along as possible then that's great.
Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): Yeah. Well you've done an amazing job. If you look at the pedigree of of Keeley artists and people that use your pedals over the years I think it's a it's a list that any any brand could envy.
And I think that you're Your in in infectious sort of enthusiasm or tone and quality pedals has certainly made its way down to the customers. I know you were saying before the show started. That it's likely that you've not only had parents but their children also buy your pedals. You've been in the industry and you've watched so many changes occur.
My first question for you is I'd really be curious to know what you think the future looks like for the guitar pedal world and the trajectory. of kind of what you think is next given what you've seen happen over you know how many years have you been doing this Robert 20 20 plus more?
Robert Keeley (Keeley Electronics): It's it's 23 years was in in September.
It was 23 years. And yeah it's funny that you mentioned that because. I have had a few people now that have started to work here that were born after I started business. So yes so that is that is really interesting. And then I've had customers. That you know claim that they had my pedals in the nineties and they're like passing them on to their kids.
And I was like well I kind of keep it quiet but I'm like I didn't start making pedals till 2001 but they have these like solid memories of having my pedals in the nineties. Yeah. It is weird having like a generation of guitar players. I do have dads that buy. Pedals for their sons now you know what I mean?
I mean Andy Timmons and and and even local guys you know what I mean? So it's it is remarkable being around that long. I was I was very employees that don't even know
Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): what a two knob compressor is. They look at them. What is this? Exactly. Doesn't have enough knobs. You drilled it wrong.
Robert Keeley (Keeley Electronics): So so the the the pedal market I've I've kind of actually been and that was a great question about where the pedal market is going and.
It's kind of interesting that it's your first question because there's definitely a change in sales post COVID that is has been hitting all of my peers and people are just out of money. I mean there's no more way to say it. You know what I mean? So I've I've kind of listened as as my peers. We'll say man sales are just horrible and sometimes I'll get involved in a lucky break with like the beach boys pedals.
That was a great deal. And if I hadn't had that deal with Josh Scott you know this year would have been absolutely devastating for me. And so thankfully for you know little cooperations like that you know kind of saves a year because you know In the past when I've been when people say like what do you think about the pedal world now?
I've been asked on several fors you know and I I've always answered that it's a it's a magical time. There's more technology available to us engineers and DIY guys than there's ever been before. And there's so many pedals and variations and ideas that you can combine that it's It's just a magical time.
That's always been my answer. And so I feel like technology wise it's still that way. I S I think there's better and better pedal developers and designers combining great ideas and making things really slick. It's just that the economy is kind of holding people back. I don't think it's for a lack of great ideas.
I see tons of. Very reasonably priced innovative gear. I mean I'm not I don't own a Tonex yet but I I see plenty of advertising and I see the people that use it and you know that's a reasonably priced product and it seems to make a lot of people happy. So I think the guitar the guitar pedal world and gear world is.
Is still a innovative you know productive place and it's still a fun place and there's still great products coming out all the time. It's just you know I think it's just a slow time. I think it's going to actually take probably a couple years to recover because When I have my employees come to me and they're they're saying man you know I was so glad I got a house a couple of years ago but you know what?
It costs me so much to live in there now because my insurance has gone up. My car insurance has gone up. My health insurance has gone up and it's like Oh there's no there's no money for pedals and gear at the moment. And that's going to take some time to to kind of change and relax.
Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): Certainly there's been a shift from the discretionary funds or the extra discretionary funds that that people had as a consequence of of COVID.
And I think that that got people buying a lot of stuff. but I think I guess one of a follow up to that is is if you if if pedals like the Tone X and and certainly there's been a huge influx I'd say Subsequent to COVID of of sort of amp modeling in the digital world the UA pedals the tone X the quad cortex things like that.
Do you feel like that's going to influence the type of pedals that we see coming out with maybe more and more people moving away from tube amplifiers? And moving into modeling amplifiers or things of that nature. Do you see that the actual stylistic pedals like the or the styles of pedals that come out will will be influenced by that?
And what do you see that potentially looking like?
Robert Keeley (Keeley Electronics): Yeah I'm really excited about the UA products. I'm glad you you brought them up because I wasn't feeling very imaginative when I was trying to come up with modern style pedals But that the the great UA pedals coming out what they just released the knuckles the other day
Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): Yeah yeah they do a rectifier one.
Robert Keeley (Keeley Electronics): Yeah how killer man and then I think it's called anti for that that red colored one I think they're all brilliant and it it kind of just goes with what I'm saying is that this field of guitar pedals and guitar gear sound effects for guitar is. a very innovative and fruitful type of world. I know we're still you know these pedals have a a new approach to ant modeling and stuff like that but I think that won't dissuade the entire market of pedal buyers.
I think that there is always going to be those guys that like to grab onto a big 3 knob pedal and and you know rock out jam out. To something some sort of simple device that they can interact with. And it doesn't have a menu or anything even close to that. You know I think that kind of thing won't make it so that you know every pedal becomes some sort of amp modeling pedal you know what I mean?
There's still choruses flangers and all that other good stuff. And you know what I mean? And for however good those sound. They still are emulations and some people you know can can kind of hear it right away. Just like when you hear like an AI podcast you know some people can't quite hear it. And the han voice the way they do the han voices yet.
And some people can hear it right away. it's it's the same way with these digital effects. There's a certain quality to the high frequency that you can kind of identify. And if you're in the room you know so. I don't know. I think it's a great environment is all I'm saying. I still think that's that's not the problem with it with this this market.
It's it's not the innovation because there's plenty of great sounding stuff.
Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): I'm curious on your take this we've we talked about this in amongst ourselves on the podcast and with some guests but. your take on the idea that some would hold that music should have an element of a struggle to it and that's why tube amps are just such to use your words you know from my opinion tube amps are such a magical piece of gear because you never are going to get the exact same sound out of them.
From day one to day two from this room to that room from this mic placement to that mic like everything is always in flux with a tube amp. And part of the the perk of an amp modeler is that disappears. It's gonna be the same from day one to day two you know. And I'm curious from someone that like yourself when when you started out and what is your take on you know there should be an element of oh that's different something changed.
What what is the analog nature I guess that we have in some of our technology? Do you like that? Do you try and avoid it? What's what do you how do you approach that?
Robert Keeley (Keeley Electronics): That's interesting because I have to approach it from kind of two different perspectives. it's just slightly off camera but I I can categorize Keeley Electronics in 1 of 2 areas eras rather pre having my audio precision by 15 analyzer and post.
Analyzer because I'm able to now test everything that comes off the SMT pick and place line and everything we assemble and I can fit it into a very narrow bandwidth of you know random analog this and and I can make sure all my stuff. It sounds very very consistent. And it's been a really interesting process because for example on the Katana we have this push pull pot and the thing that we've been using as the tester the evaluation model happened to have a potentiometer in it that I just discovered all these years later there was like 20 or 25 percent off tolerance you know greater.
And so we were constantly ripping apart these. Brand new perfectly good katanas and replacing you know defective potentiometers until I realized. Wait a second you know and the testing equipment so yeah so there's that but there's there's always this magic that seems to happen in my world where in in making our digital stuff better and better it seems like we're able to increase the dynamics going into it.
We're able to pinpoint the filtering so that it sounds best on our ears. So we're I don't know. We're still having a lot of fun in in the digital world and trying to kind of you know balance those two things where we like this analog this randomness this you know struggle with getting it to work you know what I mean?
And this kind of perfection or you know this this very precise thing where now we can start to program in some randomness. You know what I mean? And and that that has a great effect like on say our our halo pedal you know how those delays trail and stuff like that that's
Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): yeah it's kind of an accomplishment with the halo.
Cause because I never thought we'd see Andy Timmons without his his memory man set up and so to to get him away from that it must've been you must've had a lot of R and D. To get the analog nature of a memory man in a pedal. That's what what one third or one fourth it's size.
Robert Keeley (Keeley Electronics): And if in in my brain is permanently burned the image of Andy Timmons looking at the hair and the goosebumps on his arms.
Every time we get to another point he'd be like Oh my God. Do you see that? It was like the barometer for you know tonal success.
Brain Omilion (Omilion Audio): Yeah I I I remember when he brought the halo in and I think you guys were still kind of tweaking it. And of course anytime Andy came into the shop you knew it was Andy when he was playing like and I walked out there and I was like I said something about a timeline because he had been using a timeline for that sound and the time you know all the people would be asking Hey can I get that Andy sound?
Can I get that Andy that you just plug it in the Nixie? And I'm like I'm not going to do that. Not without his permission. I wouldn't do that. And I had said something I was like yeah you should consider like releasing this like timeline preset. And he just goes Look and he showed me the halo and I was like oh shoot.
I thought that's what you were playing and he goes Nope he goes and we were playing through it and I love how you guys released the the halo Is it the core? Is that the one that's right behind you? Which is so cool I I got to see one. I didn't get to buy one but I saw one at his house We were doing some tweaks and it's just such a great pedal.
I love I just love how bare bones it is You know not presets and it's just a great sounding palette. I have a rack that I'm doing and the guy has the halo literally for that Andy Timmons sound. So yeah I remember when he brought it in and we were like Hey you should do this. And he just goes I was like what is that?
When do we get it? So yeah I love the halo. It's awesome.
Robert Keeley (Keeley Electronics): Yeah it is. It has been a tremendous amount of fun. Aaron Tackett is the DSP programmer on that. And The way that he has the delays so that they are I don't know if it's if it's best to say that it's they become out of phase with the music. So like when you start to play a lot it's almost like a ducking effect in that the delays aren't sitting there chattering away.
You know until you play something staccato and you open it up and you realize oh they're there they were there the whole time you know what I mean? It's it's really really amazing. I'm like inside our shop here I'm constantly like you know we should put that halo effect on this pedal on this sound on our rotary simulator on our chorus on our double tracker on the 30 milliseconds it needs to have that halo effect on there.
Brain Omilion (Omilion Audio): Yeah I just love that. Like when you play it it's like I had one you know when we did the release Concert at the sanctuary for it. So I had people there like because we I think we like did a live stream people Like what reverb is he using? Like what reverb is using with it? And we're like There's no reverb.
It is just a halo and like it just I love how like full it sounds and airy. And like it just it was it was it's a brilliant I mean of course you're going to get the people that are like Oh do this do MIDI or whatever. And then I love how you did the core where it's just like bare bones and it just sounds fantastic.
So yeah that's it's a great pedal.
Robert Keeley (Keeley Electronics): We are working on getting MIDI finally implemented. So yesterday I was holding a A board that Creighton Hale had developed. And so so we can start to test that or those things you know what I mean? So I just don't I really have a strong fear of releasing any kind of mistakes or anything that's going to happen.
Problem or a bug. So and I we develop everything kind of internally. I don't outsource anything. So it's just going to take us a little bit of time to be sure because I would hate I would hate to not be able to you know update them in the field or whatever you know what I mean? Cause. Once you send out 3000 units to get them all back is quite an expensive endeavor.
Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): Yeah. No absolutely.
Brain Omilion (Omilion Audio): Yeah
Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): well I'm excited
Brain Omilion (Omilion Audio): for that.
Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): One thing I'm hearing and I'm curious to ask your perspective on is you started and obviously you would have known about electronics. You would have been tinkering before 2001 I think is when Keeley started. You've been in the industry a long time. It would be very easy for you to let's say stick with the compressor analog circuits like the stuff that is in your wheelhouse that you're comfortable with.
But even in hearing you talk it's like we're bringing in a MIDI we have a DSP engineer we're doing everything in house you have your manufacturing in house. There's so many areas where you are continually stretching yourself or continually trying new things and experimenting. After almost 25 years of running Keeley where you could have chosen a much easier path is basically what I'm saying.
And I'm curious I guess in two parts how do you foster that approach to continually challenging yourself after being in the indie industry for multiple decades? And was that a purposeful choice or is it just kind of how you're wired? Like I'm always looking for something new something a new take or a new approach.
Robert Keeley (Keeley Electronics): So how I'm wired is actually quite lazy. So I'm usually trying to engineer it some way that I don't have to do the work. But no it's really thank you for seeing it that way where it looks like I'm constantly trying to push forward you know in in reality I'm still trying to do what my bosses did before I even got into pedals.
So if I can just take you briefly through there in In 1990 I think it was I started at this stereo store an old fashioned hi fi car stereo type place home stereo place called Soundtrack and Linda Soundtrack was the owner and she was really great at marketing and the service department I worked in had all these old guys that had worked on old tube stuff and you know so I got a ton of experience with all kinds of Very hi fi American made and Japanese made gear So I saw how like the best of the best stuff in the audio industry was made So that was the first part of the 90s the middle part of the 90s.
I worked for an electrical engineer that had all kinds of ties to different fields including production television stuff Then we he did stuff for the medical field where he was like we had programs where we were tracking mice You In different things. So I had software and and hardware type communication but the main thing that I learned from JT Hensley was he was the guy that came up with the whole glamour shots thing.
You remember how that was big in the nineties at malls where girls would get their picture taken at glamour shots? Well that was. A very complex system of recording a digital capture stuff linked up with the the the the flash of cameras that were analog cameras and stuff like that going into a computer.
That was a video capture thing. And you had this. Whole thing that he had designed to integrate these systems and all these things like the thermal printers For doing the proofs had to be modified and we made the circuit boards there So I've got the you know all this background in Glamour shots. I hate to say Where I'm we're making he designed his own circuit boards to get a camera And a flash and a computer and a you know video capture card when that was brand spanking new you know what I mean?
All that that entire system integrated and then I went back and worked after that you know with another stereo store guy Sandy Clemens and he was the coolest kindest nicest dude and was an entrepreneurial spirit And he was constantly encouraging us to You know be the best we could be you know what I mean?
Person leader manager. He was like the ultimate Eagle scout you know what I mean? And so you put all those things together and I'm just trying to do what you know other people had done for me.
Brain Omilion (Omilion Audio): That's awesome.
Robert Keeley (Keeley Electronics): I've seen all these systems you know what I mean? I've seen you know all these guitar effects or these electronic circuits in other pieces of equipment or as it was being developed.
And so I'm I'm I'm trying to you know get my team and have them you know get their education and degrees and and practice their their skills and chops so that we can make you know the best product we can make you know.
Brain Omilion (Omilion Audio): So is it is it is it safe to say that the next product is going to be a Keeley calendar of glamour shots of all of your pets?
Please please. Twelve months of Robert.
Robert Keeley (Keeley Electronics): All the pets will have these incredible hairdos. Yes little wigs.
Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): Well you know like they used to have those like firefighter calendars you know where they'd be posing.
You could be Mr.
Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): July the hottest month of the year
Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): Robert Suggestively holding a soldering iron but just get all all
Brain Omilion (Omilion Audio): all the top pedal builders a glamor.
Oh that's hysterical. All the top pedal builders
Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): the fireman's
Robert Keeley (Keeley Electronics): calendar. Yeah.
Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): Yeah. Well Robert I want to continue talking with you more about Healey Electronics but before we do I want to break momentarily to talk about a few sponsors that make the podcast possible. So I'm going to turn it over to Brian to do that.
Brain Omilion (Omilion Audio): Yeah thank you. Yeah. So the first of our sponsors are the guys at the Guitar Sanctuary as we just talked about. they carry they carry Keeley and all sorts of other pedals guitars amps acoustics basses ukuleles. They have all the stuff that you need in stock. Go check them out guitarsanctuary.com.
Visit them in store in McKinney Texas. You won't be disappointed. you can shoot them a call. text message email reach out to them they'd love to help you and let them know that the chairman sent you. Next we're gonna meet the guys over at Mono Creators. I know we say it every single week and I kid you not I have multiple mono cases backpacks gig bags pedalboard cases pedalboards hour supplies a bunch of their different stuff.
They got you covered when it comes to pedal platforms cases really rugged and durable stuff that you need roadworthy when you're traveling you wanna you know you don't wanna have to check your guitar but if they have to you know gate check it and put it under it's it'll be nice and safe and protected super durable I always say military grade type of Zippers the the quality is impeccable.
We won't find anything like it. they have a discount codes Chairman C H A I R M E E N for 10 percent off. Go use that code. Let them know that the chairman sent you over. I mean get saving in this economy. Why not save 10%? Go check them out at MonoCreators.com
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And there's always a positive. You always got to look at the positive. so in our final sponsor for the day are gonna be the guys at BTPA or best Tronics. Simply the best as I say Brad they always you know they always come in clutch when it comes to needing 2.1 millimeter connectors or midi connectors or specialty cables.
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I'll go back to you Mason.
Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): Thank you Brian. So Robert and the next question I have for you is I the when I first became familiar with Keely and by the way I should mention my first Keely panel was was a modified Tube Screamer. I had sent in a TS9 to get the baked mod.
Right.
Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): this is when I was a college student it was probably around I don't know 2005.
so when I first learned about Keeley it was primarily characterized as doing more modifications. You had the two knob compressor. I think you had the Katana. you had I think an amp selector the Framtone. And there may have been a few other ones. And then there was a point with which you kind of stopped doing mods and and you kind of just went to to Keeley electronics.
Can you talk about kind of the shift in from kind of more mod based to more like just Keeley standalone products and and not doing or taking modifications anymore and kind of how that that transition happened.
Robert Keeley (Keeley Electronics): Yeah that transition happened right around the time of my divorce. So that would be about 2012 is when.
I started to bring that to a close and it was really kind of a reason. It was really a financial reason honestly to stop doing the mods because if I was paying even deal you know I had accounts with boss and with Ibanez so even when I'm buying a tube screamer at dealer cost or a boss metal a dealer cost then I have to mod it and then try to sell it to a dealer to sell.
You know quantities of it. Holy cow. That was such a bad role model having so much cost in a product that still people perceived as just a modded or a tweet something else you know what I mean? Right. And so I I there was there's plenty of fans of those modded pedals you know what I mean? And but I had to.
I had to step away because I'd look around and I'd see my peers with you know tube screamers and in different clothes you know what I mean? Or something else. And I thought you know gosh darn I'm putting so much effort into. You know tweaking these other pedals and it's not a high profit margin thing at all.
Even though I was charging you know 50 to 75 bucks or whatever to mod it. when you have that much cost into the product in the first place. Yeah
Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): because probably once it landed it was probably even on pedals like that. It had to be more than 50 you know I would think. And and so you know a pedal that's costing you 50 not to give too much insight but typically you know the the standard rule would be like four X your cost.
So you know there there may not have been at that time a tolerance for for a 200 plus pedal that that somebody could say well I could just get a regular one for you know in the cost of rework too I don't think people understand that's essentially what you're doing. It is super expensive because you're having to disassemble you're having to make the changes you're having to reassemble repackage.
There's like all these processes that wouldn't be there if you were just taking it on yourself from A to Z.
Robert Keeley (Keeley Electronics): Yeah. When when you have a smaller group of guys and you know we weren't making our own circuit boards then and you know we were working just simple drill presses and you know old fashioned silkscreen machines.
We still put a lot of effort into those mods even though well it like like you were saying I mean it was actually 12 different parts for most of the mods. There was actually a dozen component changes. Not that they all made a huge huge difference but in theory they did. So you know at the very least so it wasn't it wasn't a it was kind of a cumbersome type of thing.
Cause every anytime you're taking a brand new product out unboxing it and then starting to drill holes into it change the part that's going to get nicked up and then next thing you know you got a bunch of blemished units laying around. So it was it was definitely challenging. So it It was kind of I don't even know if it was bittersweet by the time I had been doing pedal mods for a decade You know what?
I mean and not wanting to put a lot more effort into developing those It it was definitely a good time to get rid of it because I couldn't I couldn't pay my boss and Ibanez bills. They had me on credit hold you know during that divorce I was like that's a good time to start making my own pedals Yeah you know until I pay this stuff off.
So
Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): yeah You Kind of two things happened at the
Robert Keeley (Keeley Electronics): same time.
Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): We're glad we're glad that you did. And and and now you've kind of transitioned recently into you know kind of these two in one pedals and you've even moved into doing a custom enclosure with you know bent aluminum I think right? It's it's aluminum?
Yeah. And so what was the impetus to sort of move away from the die cast boxes and and go to the the aluminum enclosures?
Robert Keeley (Keeley Electronics): So it's kind of the tale of how expensive my mistakes can be. Sometimes people freak out around here if they do something wrong and they botch a bunch of cases or something. I'm like well that that mistake doesn't compare any to my my kind of mistakes.
I ended up sinking about a quarter of a million dollars into a thing called a turret punch this huge huge boat anchor of a device that's designed to punch out Metal and then I got a CNC press break to bend it. So that was my idea. I was like you know how I'm going to get to the next level is if I make my own cases but I don't want to be tied into any kind of prefab shape and I don't want to outsource it.
So I'm going to have to figure out how to do this. And for some reason I had for some reason I had some kind of fear of learning to work a laser or or maybe the cost was prohibitive when I first started doing it but the turret punch seemed like a good idea. And So we started with that got it installed and struggled to get it all working.
And it produces a lot of shrapnel and a lot of garbage as it's pounding out stuff. So that had imperfections in the aluminum the sheet aluminum. And so I ended up going I guess I'm just gonna have to buy a laser and figure that out. So I don't have all this extra work to do to sand and everything like that.
Got the laser in. And it was like butter you know and now I can't get rid of this quarter million dollar turret punch that I barely got a you know a half a year's worth of productivity out of before the laser replaced it. So Is this a
Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): sales pitch for the turret punch? Is anyone looking for a turret punch that's listening to the
Robert Keeley (Keeley Electronics): podcast?
Better than 90 percent close to free. I would sell that for about any reasonable offer. I mean come make a joke off it and I will take it.
Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): Yeah but the laser obviously I mean the laser was the it sounds like the answer to your problems. And the technology on those just gets more and more affordable as the years move on as well right?
Robert Keeley (Keeley Electronics): Right because that laser and the compressor ended up being let's say 100 grand 93 grand or something like that and the turret punch without the tools was 196 000. Jeez. You know everything is a custom tool to fit on this big huge turret and I mean it'd be great if if these weren't I'm trying to make a hi fi device.
So you know any kind of imperfection in there's it through transparent powder coating you know it becomes a problem and stuff like that. And then the edges don't line up. So the the laser is really you know fantastic. You know now we got the sexiest looking DC jacks around and you know.
Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): I feel like you can you've made it as a company if you can create a square hole.
That's when you know you've arrived. Yeah. That's all you need.
Robert Keeley (Keeley Electronics): That's exactly it. I used to think that a long time ago. Like man I sure wish I could make a square hole. Oh yeah.
Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): I'm there right now. You're you're you're my dream right now. Like I see a square hole in your project. Oh Robert please. Stop it.
Well and the bonus is you get
Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): that rigidity. You get that extra rigidity from the case you know to kind of help support the the DC jack there. Yeah. So so that that's always a plus but yeah I think that I think I don't know why more people don't go to a custom enclosure like we've been doing prototype thing that we're working on but I mean we and we kind of have a similar shape on our bent metal enclosures.
it just seems to me if you're getting them done in quantities and a lot of your pedals are in this it's way less expensive than to buy the Hammond style you know BB whatever they are. Yeah. or 1590 whatever enclosures just seems to make way more sense to do it this way.
Brain Omilion (Omilion Audio): They're so restrictive. I feel like when you have to buy them in that pre done size.
Robert Keeley (Keeley Electronics): It it's it is man. It's a challenge to you have to make your circuit so that it fits in there and then has to be easy to assemble and has to you know it is a challenge to get it to fit into those bud boxes. Oh my gosh.
Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): Yeah but I can understand in the early days like there weren't a lot of options and those were kind of ready to go and and so people would use them.
I think now there's
Robert Keeley (Keeley Electronics): I couldn't imagine trying to make this case you know 20 years ago at all. I mean I wouldn't have the slightest clue. There wouldn't have been lasers so we would have had to do it with punches the way we're doing it. And and I I I didn't wouldn't have any experience with press breaks at all.
You know what I mean? Yeah. So that would've been pretty darn foreign to me. So yeah. Yeah. Is
Brain Omilion (Omilion Audio): the is the halo core in the the new trem reverb the same enclosure?
Robert Keeley (Keeley Electronics): Yeah. I I have a I have a tendency to do that. I try to get as much mileage out of. Yeah that the reform is possible.
Brain Omilion (Omilion Audio): No I love it. I actually love that enclosure.
That's that's why I ask it's so fun That's awesome.
Robert Keeley (Keeley Electronics): So this is actually a slightly different halo core than what you had mentioned Okay this one is the one that's gonna come out probably in December It's got a dotted eighth mode the one that you saw only had two modes halo and quarter note This one has a dotted eighth note in it.
Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): 30 percent more modes.
Robert Keeley (Keeley Electronics): It is. Yes.
Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): 33.
Robert Keeley (Keeley Electronics): 3. Sorry sorry sorry. 33. 3%. Half of that would be 50%. Maybe is it 50 percent more?
Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): Okay you got me. And it's stereo in stereo out Robert? Or is that just expression jacks?
Robert Keeley (Keeley Electronics): No that's stereo in and out.
Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): Oh beautiful. Beautiful. I remember when you
Brain Omilion (Omilion Audio): guys released the core and I think I went to go buy one and it was like sold out.
And I was like Oh what the heck?
Robert Keeley (Keeley Electronics): That's interesting. You mentioned that that that is the one success story we had for all of 2024 unless today. You know with the Zoma release happens to go you know swimmingly. Well
Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): I don't doubt it.
Robert Keeley (Keeley Electronics): Well I sure hope so. I can talk about that forever but Oh it only took one second to forget where I was going.
Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): You're talking about the success of of the of the halo core.
Robert Keeley (Keeley Electronics): That was the one success story of 2024 is that We sold this at a hundred pedals an hour. We sold holy cow 300 in three hours. I was so proud of that statistic 'cause I don't think we'd ever done anything like that. And so that was that was pretty cool.
I I think it was because it was very very reasonably priced. I only did this at 1 99. That's awesome.
Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): Mm-Hmm
Robert Keeley (Keeley Electronics): and I only and I only had 300 so it might have been also it was
Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): a limited
Robert Keeley (Keeley Electronics): storm. It was a it was a limited. Kind of person or so you know and anytime Andy Timmons name is put on you know in relationship to the halo you know what I mean?
It just does really well. That's been a extraordinary product for me. Well yeah and he's amazing. So that was the 1 good 1 you know everything else has been remarkably soft. I mean like when I I believe it or not I did most of that 4 and 1 driveline at the very beginning of the year and . I was heartbroken that it only did like 12 15 17 percent of what I had hoped it would do you know even the noble
Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): screamer all that stuff.
Now the noble
Robert Keeley (Keeley Electronics): screamer came out first and that one was actually did pretty good. And I thought oh wow this is great. You know we we moved you know maybe it was even close to 2000 of them before release date or on release date you know to dealers and customers. And that did not translate to releasing three pedals at the same time.
Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): Do you think that that's a hard format to do multiple releases at once? Like do you feel like they cannibalize each other? Or do you feel like it has a bigger push when there's three at one time?
Robert Keeley (Keeley Electronics): Yeah I think that I probably made a mistake even though I don't want to admit it I keep on wanting to tell myself I just wanted to get the idea over and done with so I could get back to the Octapsi you know so I was like I could drag this around and try to maximize sales but I'm going to surrender to the fact that I just want people to see my whole concept of all these pedals and how you know They all worked together in a very clever way to produce a unique sound.
It's like the ultimate mod you know what I mean? so now I mean it might not have been the best sales wise to do it but I still I still like the fact that they're all out. It's all said and done. It's kind of like maybe
Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): that's the groundwork you know for for for the future options that that are in this format because I thought that the campaign for the noble screamer.
Was very well done and I thought it was I thought it was cool the way that you involved the Nashville crowd because the Nobles is so emblematic of that sound and So I thought it was a really smart and creative way to to To signal to people that were afraid that it's another Nobles that doesn't quite sound like a Nobles Having the presence of those players.
I think really helped make it safe to say Okay I'm gonna get this and it's gonna sound the way that I expect plus I have this option to add in the tube screamer or you know select between that and the nobles. And so I I just thought that was a really cool way of of marketing the the pedal. So congratulations on that.
Yeah yeah.
Robert Keeley (Keeley Electronics): I know I I now that you say it like that I I really could can see it better the other way like if I would've taken that the blues disorder up against anyone's king of tone and or any OCD from any version. Right. And run it through the same paces that you were just describing. You know that would have been a much more successful launch.
You know it's
Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): it's not it's not too late to do it. And I think that that's the thing that that that I think is really beautiful about the internet now and in YouTube is that you can you can recreate. The the same thing like you can recreate a launch almost if one doesn't go the way that you expected there's a pivot that can happen.
And because if if let's say your your initial launch video got 5 000 views well you have another chance at a launch video and you can do it again. And it and it you know may hit a different string of people and now it's got a hundred thousand views. So I don't think it's too late. Whereas I feel like in the old days it was difficult to relaunch because you had so few avenues like you couldn't get guitar player magazine to re review your pedal
but you
Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): but you can put out as many YouTube videos as you want on any given product.
So I think in that in that respect why not do it now? What what do we you know you don't have to wait for anybody.
Robert Keeley (Keeley Electronics): As soon as I Slow down on some of the other cool fun ideas we're tossing around I'm gonna get back to the blizzard disorder.
Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): It is a great line of pedals. Like I think there's definitely something to them for sure.
And I yeah. I'm I'm I obviously I don't know any of your guys numbers. And so it's a surprise to me to hear that they didn't go As well as you had hoped because I see them I see them from Instagram and I see them from you know all the different online feeds that come my way. I'm like of course these are going to do great.
Like these are this is an awesome line of pedals. It's multi you know multifaceted per pedal and you know multi use and all that. Like it's it was a great idea is a great idea. And so it is quite surprising to me to hear that they they didn't do what you had hoped they would do.
Robert Keeley (Keeley Electronics): Well I'm being you know brutally honest about you know day one kind of results from you know sales through my shop specifically the blues disorder has done you know well and the noble screamer believe it or not is still more popular than I think the other ones.
I think the blues disorder is catching up. So whatever we did with the noble screamer was definitely more correct. So but Yeah I'm I'm they're not going anywhere. So there's definitely gonna be more release parties on these pedals because I am so proud of the switching system. I think that that's the most impressive part of this of all of our new pedals is the way we've got our true bypass and buffered bypass switching system worked out.
How just flawlessly they switch in and out of the audio path without creating a bunch of noise. That's what was so cool about working with our our new buffered system and the halo because if you have any pop at all and you put it through the halo it's going to sit there and sing along with you.
So every time there would be some noise from one of my pedals especially like the Octapsi or anything it would just be like
Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): Man
Robert Keeley (Keeley Electronics): we need to get that switching down so that it's silent. It can't have anything come out you know? So
yeah
Robert Keeley (Keeley Electronics): we put a lot of effort into you know making making that switching system as good as we could.
Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): Oh sorry Brian.
Brain Omilion (Omilion Audio): Well I'll jp in. I gotta say I did a couple of little demo boards for you guys. And I remember when the Nobles the screamer when you had me do it with that little switching box that you guys designed.
Yeah. And
Brain Omilion (Omilion Audio): I remember we were all like Brian meter and I were the back and forth like.
You gotta send us one. You got like it was such a cool little thing that out of the blue that it just switched between the different paths and you could try the different ones. And it was it was it was such a fun little box that you did. We we kept bugging them. We're like Will you sell them when you're I don't know I don't know.
And I'm just like all right well if you don't sell them to people sell them to me. So I can use it. Cause it was just such a cool concept. I don't know. I never ended up getting one. Hey well send me an
Robert Keeley (Keeley Electronics): email. Cause I will send you one because I found the box of these things. Because one of our other technicians future engineers Drew Papadopoulos.
He came in he's like Hey boss can I have this? And I was like no get your own man stay away from mine. And I said I think there's supposed to be a box of them. I think we supposed to make a bunch of them for dealers. So I think we were supposed to make one for you Brian. And that's
Brain Omilion (Omilion Audio): awesome.
Robert Keeley (Keeley Electronics): And we just found them.
So
Brain Omilion (Omilion Audio): this thing is
Robert Keeley (Keeley Electronics): something that Creighton developed. And it's really cool because you can connect three different sounding nobles odr1s up here and then you can connect your noble screamer here that you're going to evaluate it on and then this switch here made it absolutely incredible for us a being between any one of those weird things and then I didn't have the buffers From those bizarre pedals Affecting the way my pedal sounded.
Oh that was the most annoying part of trying to Make a pedal that sounded exactly like the Nobles ODR 1 and have it not affect your signal path you know when you're trying to listen to your creation. So
Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): an interesting Nobles thing though I don't know if you if you knew this but before Xact Tone existed in its current format I used to do a lot of those ODR1 conversions where you would put them into a Hammond enclosure.
And I did a bunch of them for Tom Bukovac like this is like 15 years ago. But one of the interesting things I don't know if this is what you came across when you were doing the Noble Screamer. is I did the first one for him and as I think most people would told nothing else when you do the true bypass modification you would just bypass that FET switching circuit.
Right. But he when he got it he's like well it sounds wrong. And I was like well I don't know like I didn't do anything else. And I was like the only thing I changed was that I bypassed the switching circuit. And he said well you know I'm gonna send it back to you. Can you still make it true bypass but put the true bypass after the FET?
The FET and just leave it on you know and I did that and he's like Oh that that was it. And so there's something about the inefficiency of that FET circuit. Being in circuit and then wrapping the true bypass around that that is a requisite thing to get the sound as it needs to be. So I realized that is the thing before I did a bunch more of them for him.
Robert Keeley (Keeley Electronics): Hey that's great that you mentioned that you want to hear how true that statement is that you just made and how it it does sound that bet became the basis for or not the basis but is that what we use in that entire four in one series. So we had to emulate the sound of that opening FET right? And so that became the of course the the opening sound for the tube screamer section of that pedal.
But then we realized that we liked the way it sounded so much that we had to use it for all the other pedals too. So yeah.
Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): Is the input impedance on a on a Nobles is it also like 500k like a tube screamer?
Robert Keeley (Keeley Electronics): It probably is. I would have to look at those resistors again and see but it'd probably be a better question for Creighton.
He'd probably give
Mason Marangella (Vertex Effects): you that number. Grant I know that you had something I want to make sure that we get your question.
Grant Klassen (Goodwood Audio): Well yeah I want to talk about the Zoma as well cause that's like the newest release. But before we get there I really wanted to ask about a pedal that I've I've really been appreciating from afar even more so when you mentioned that it took three years to develop and that's the Octapsi and I've been you know watching demo videos and checking out specs and stuff and it it just looks like it's great.
It looks like fun in a box like it just looks like it's a party pedal as in it's kind of like a big moth octave with all these you know yeah with all these additional routing features and options in it but I really wanted to hear you talk about. How did you go about the development process and how you were able to stick with it what the big hurdles were in developing this and how you got past them because you you mentioned three years like three years in development having multiple people on it.
and yeah I was just curious to hear you talk about that.
Robert Keeley (Keeley Electronics): So this is awesome.
Brain Omilion (Omilion Audio): This
Robert Keeley (Keeley Electronics): is before we got our turret punch. And then of course before we got our laser. So we had it crammed into the 1590 BB. And this is March of 2022. I had it it was it was done essent
